1

Topic: News that could be useful!

> There have been some recent developments, including a survey on what
> people want from the trademark policy. The survey is open until
> September 2022.
>
> Debian bug: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … ug=1013920
>
> LWN article about it: https://lwn.net/Articles/901816/
>
> Rust foundation survey on trademark policy:
> https://foundation.rust-lang.org/news/2 … nd-survey/
>   

I got an email from github regarding this!

So... yeah, I recommend you guys give your input on what changes you want made.

HyperbolaBSD: The Future of Secure Libre Lightweight Operating Systems!

2

Re: News that could be useful!

Well, there is no point to take the survey as to quote from the reported bug:

I think that would probably be easy enough to comply with. I also
think that is fairly in line with trademark policies in general. If
someone significantly modifies Debian, I believe the Debian Project
would insist that they use a different name for their product despite
the DFSG and despite that Debian is free and open source.

So the people are complying further with trademark, copyright (instead of copyleft) and branding. No need to go with it - for me speaking now. Point is: There is no understanding of that issue until today. But there is more: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … ug=1015242

So I say: Let them clear this up. Either there will be gcc-rust coming or not. Until that point I think we as community should not bother further with it. When there is gcc-version with correct including rust without law-issues: We can look again onto that point and perhaps than having more. I hope they solve it the same way gcc-go has done: No sideloading packages like GO is doing official. No thanks at all! We have ONE package-management. There is no need for another one within other packages.

And yes: We can help us, but therefore giving a hand would be nice. When there is some feedback about the flaws of Rust already noted: Okay, we will help for sure. But running after those discussions will leave our concrete focus for the moment.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

3

Re: News that could be useful!

throgh wrote:

Well, there is no point to take the survey as to quote from the reported bug:

I think that would probably be easy enough to comply with. I also
think that is fairly in line with trademark policies in general. If
someone significantly modifies Debian, I believe the Debian Project
would insist that they use a different name for their product despite
the DFSG and despite that Debian is free and open source.

So the people are complying further with trademark, copyright (instead of copyleft) and branding. No need to go with it - for me speaking now. Point is: There is no understanding of that issue until today. But there is more: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … ug=1015242

So I say: Let them clear this up. Either there will be gcc-rust coming or not. Until that point I think we as community should not bother further with it. When there is gcc-version with correct including rust without law-issues: We can look again onto that point and perhaps than having more. I hope they solve it the same way gcc-go has done: No sideloading packages like GO is doing official. No thanks at all! We have ONE package-management. There is no need for another one within other packages.

And yes: We can help us, but therefore giving a hand would be nice. When there is some feedback about the flaws of Rust already noted: Okay, we will help for sure. But running after those discussions will leave our concrete focus for the moment.

At the very least, I recommend taking the survey of how you think their trademarks should work.

The rest, is up to you as to what you wish to do.

HyperbolaBSD: The Future of Secure Libre Lightweight Operating Systems!

4

Re: News that could be useful!

There is no need to do that: It is not only Rust. And per definition they "defend their trademark" further. So when we remove Cargo we need to ask again for permission. That's not okay. Furthermore: You need servo, for building servo you need rustup and for building a newer version of Mozilla Firefox you also need the libc-implementation for WebAssembly. That's bloat per definition: When I need so much tools for just compiling a program, that's not acceptable in any way.

Just to note about the links:

https://github.com/rust-lang/rustup.rs
https://servo.org/
https://github.com/WebAssembly/wasi-libc

So this reply is also in relation of the team: We are focussed onto bugfixing, adding minor helpers and most the time HyperbolaBSD and porting! We have no time to attend into some surveys with unclear outcome, especially when projects ask for feedback never willing and showed up the will to recognize the problem. We will put focus on our system, making it the best possible for us. Rest is up to the community! But to note: You cannot just add Rust and be then fine with compiling newer versions of firefox for example. The links and names for dependencies show up a different picture. You don't want more bloat included? Okay, stay away from the Rust-toolchain and therefore Rust in a whole.

Just because there is a 64bit-system with more resources for accessing does not mean we are there to misuse those and build even bigger programs and complex toolchains. In the end somebody has to understand all that and we as small team have neither the resources nor the time to do that. Support is needed nevertheless: Donating includes not also money. If Rust is going so missing, then please do something on your own. Our focus lies not onto that part for sure!

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

5

Re: News that could be useful!

throgh wrote:

There is no need to do that: It is not only Rust. And per definition they "defend their trademark" further. So when we remove Cargo we need to ask again for permission. That's not okay. Furthermore: You need servo, for building servo you need rustup and for building a newer version of Mozilla Firefox you also need the libc-implementation for WebAssembly. That's bloat per definition: When I need so much tools for just compiling a program, that's not acceptable in any way.

Just to note about the links:

https://github.com/rust-lang/rustup.rs
https://servo.org/
https://github.com/WebAssembly/wasi-libc

So this reply is also in relation of the team: We are focussed onto bugfixing, adding minor helpers and most the time HyperbolaBSD and porting! We have no time to attend into some surveys with unclear outcome, especially when projects ask for feedback never willing and showed up the will to recognize the problem. We will put focus on our system, making it the best possible for us. Rest is up to the community! But to note: You cannot just add Rust and be then fine with compiling newer versions of firefox for example. The links and names for dependencies show up a different picture. You don't want more bloat included? Okay, stay away from the Rust-toolchain and therefore Rust in a whole.

Just because there is a 64bit-system with more resources for accessing does not mean we are there to misuse those and build even bigger programs and complex toolchains. In the end somebody has to understand all that and we as small team have neither the resources nor the time to do that. Support is needed nevertheless: Donating includes not also money. If Rust is going so missing, then please do something on your own. Our focus lies not onto that part for sure!

My bad, I didn't realize there was other rust issues beyond rust itself even...

Nor did I know that it couldn't be debloated easily.

Sorry...

HyperbolaBSD: The Future of Secure Libre Lightweight Operating Systems!

6

Re: News that could be useful!

I know that's really bad and the situation about the toolchain of Rust is not getting better. Okay, we have some other tools also around Python or C / C++, but this is not as bad as the mentioned ones. The hope can be onto the little mentioned inclusion of Rust into GCC. But until they have cleared up the issues behind, we better wait. And I hope really they can clear that up. Otherwise even GCC gets a problem.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!