Could you please say something more about this??

Well, another problem is trying to reach a real inclusive community. What do you do with harassment? Either you accept participants within a community, who have done and will do again hassments against others leading to marginalized people being even more out of safe spaces and put into drawers, or you talk to each other and search for a solution. Yes, this solution can also end with an exclusion of people, who don't want to accept inclusion and respect for each other. Remembering therefore to the social contract:

And trying to defame others following clear principles is also one major problem these days because some just see their own freedom and not respect the one of others, as there is no further difference. False comparisons are more of the same smear wording we had in the past: People naming problems within projects and "free culture" generally are just handled like a bird fouling its own nest. That's disgusting and more about the all known paradigm using politics for the very own part named ignorance and arrogance! And yes: I have a concrete example from different websites again but I won't share it as this thread is not about sharing exclusive links, more about a discussion of perspectives and perhaps also a collection of possible tipps getting towards a real community caring about each other. Just the notes: Reading about comparisons to doctors don't swearing the "Hippocratic Oath" is very much about smear wordings. Where is the harm if you exclude oppressing and abusive behaviour? Exactly that: You make a point when positioning against it. And facing the fact that be excellent to each other does not help in those situations.

Believe me or not: I had it in the past also. Being attacked, excluded and insulted because of my sugar disease. That's is the pure definition of toxic, oppressive behaviour. And you won't solve anything by ignoring it, again and again!
Free software and free culture is about beings, so we have to deal with different perspectives and talk about them. But we should also draw a line about what is acceptable and what is not. Racism, sexism, ableism and many more for example are nothing more than systematic oppression and pure hatred! Being believable is including the position against systematic oppression also while we are talking about freedom of speech does not include being free of criticism and trying to marginalize the marginalized beings is even more of the same old, but really tragic story our history is full with. Help others to get out of drawers the majority had put them into, getting also more people to understand not to repeat such a behaviour. This won't solve everything but it is another step forward towards freedom and emancipation of everyone.

Well, thanks for the feedback but I think otherwise about. As written most within the postings: It is my personal conclusion and I have not the ultimate ratio or better answer. Would be not interesting otherwise! And of couse: Better getting the proof of being "wrong" with the personal conclusions. But my experience told me otherwise around. Yes, people on the IRC tell you many things but even though the possibility of systemd integrated within the portages has some conclusions into otherwise they could have also started to be into INIT-freedom instead, so the question is just answered for this moment and that has nothing to say about the future from my point of view. While I dont know if the plans of Hyperbola getting more concrete regarding s6 and shepherd for example, better to have clear principles. OpenRC is coming up from the developers of Gentoo and that's good though. But the point is: How long until there is no further interest on OpenRC because it is too much time investing for further development and upholding more about systemd? Remember: This service-framework got a big sponsor behind and therefore big interests. Or has anyone seen the team behind systemd asking for support and donations? I didn't but instead there is seen this: Take it, it is free! Such a big monolithic bloatware systemd has become and it won't stop. Gentoo has therefore also enough proprietary portages for a possible installation and for being not believable to "defend" and stand either for freedom or especially free culture, speaking from my point of view.

EDIT: Regarding Slackware you could have a look here!

Thinking about about the toxic waste capitalism is leaving us all onto is very important to recognize possible solutions. And I'm not talking about creating another system as some replacement, having therefore the ultimate solution at once. We need to start reflecting the failures instead playing some kind of bad game and being believable is about that. A solution is built on top of being honest to each other and stop hunting for buzzwords, for greed or power. In fact a personal statement: Power is up to no one for the better treating all people under equal rights. Capitalism or the so-called "regulation of free markets" is nothing more than some buzzwords hanging around. In the end the "market" is following the ruleset of the one with the biggest budget, not with the reasonable idea behind. Inclusion and diversity are not just simple "words" and creating vendor lock-in just as systemd, Java, Mono, Rust, PulseAudio and many more are doing is not an illusion. Where is the freedom of choice? Why not to choose some module and instead replace it by another one fitting more into the personal usecase? Not many seem listening these days and the hills of toxic waste are growing, full with cheap marketing speech.

Guess what: Some time ago the FSF announced that the MMORPG (short term for Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game) The Saga of Ryzom went "open" being therefore a big step forward. You can read about that here. What is left about that more than fourteen years later? Exactly nothing. Yes, you can play with a Linux-client. But could you establish your own server? Well, there were some tryouts but there is exactly no further tutorial to be found and there are no further servers available for now.

So that's a very good example on how the "free, libre software" failed. No, not the idealistic picture but just big words and cheap phrases. Nothing more, nothing less. And it gets from month to month, from year to year even more complicated. Not just because of all the ongoing vendor lock-ins, not just because of hollow phrasing and marketing, just about being believable and staying onto the principles.

Arrogance and pure ignorance are definitely major problems these days. So who is exactly talking about the focus on "internet" in general? And more about: Just why? Why not decentralize the knowledge itself, making it open? And why should we think about cloning services and handles like the interface of so-called "webapplications"? Yes, there are people without knowing about the computer in general and just using their mobile devices including telephone-capabilities. Getting those people into "free, libre soft- and hardware" is a big task, getting them into "free, colorful culture" even bigger. This cannot be done by just getting the people where they are. The same as everything: It is a complete and complicate change with many steps to be taken and this is an individual decision. First things first: The people need to be open for those ideas. Just getting news and updates onto them in closed and walled services is a really bad and ignorant idea.

Yes and I'd like to add also: Everybody has "something" to hide even when living in some kind of safety for the moment - that is at some point very vague as the political situation can always be changed. If some party comes into influence tending to abolish democratic basics, it is over with sentences like I have nothing to hide!. It is essential having therefore a system respecting the right for being free from following "for the greater good".

One further example why? We have it already: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= … ebook-OOMD

Is "Facebook" therefore absolute "evil"? As always: Of course not. But their intention is therefore not correct or even in some ways helpful. And their work, their services also not. It is not intentionally "evil", it is more about being just ignorant and arrogant. That's the major issue and problem. Another one, because systemd is adopted by many distributions and even the FSF doesn't really care about that. It is just easy to get into major parts of distributions when there is just this type of bloatware used and it is still growing.

Thanks for the message: Reading through the related article on Wikipedia offers more technical insights and also mentions the relation between Facebook as the project itself is hosted on a repository from this company. But that's one major issue as this algorithm was and is developed under some really clear circumstances as much data should be compressed on the infrastructure of Facebook. Seems nice from them to share this? No it isn't as this is part of making dependencies and the false liberalism of "Open-Source" into "free, libre software".

Well okay: It is using a dual-licensing model: BSD License + GPLv2. But in fact we will find more of those moves in many projects these days. For example: Thunderbird. Looking here: https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/01/th … -new-home/

Sharing a quote:

Exactly that: non-charitable donations ... meaning therefore not "donations" for the project to develop for everybody the same but more only of "some" interests of individuals and groups. Yeah, of course: It is always about interests. But why integrating so much things being so clearly away from ideals and making companies like Facebook even more "relevant"? Just because of the size of packages? And what "interests"? Making money from data collected throughout usage of Thunderbird? There are just more lies ahead! More about "being unbelievable".

Just as always the adaption is done from within the "open-source"-community and is a flavor for being made as some kind of "free, libre software". But when we look at the whole landscape it is questionable what is reached today. Being strict onto "free, libre projects" could be one first step as companies will never bring up more than their own interests. Pragmatic, toxic waste is left!

So, here we are again, folks. And we are talking again - as always - about being believable in regards to free, libre software. So is NPM to be trusted after the project was bought by Github, therefore originated towards Microsoft? Don't get me wrong: It is not only about that Microsoft has literally years after years showing up that they DON'T LIKE free, libre software and their "new strategy" is just more of the same. It is just about the money in general: So Github bought NPM, therefore also the complete JavaScript-ecosystem itself and Microsoft will show again that they can not be trusted. Perhaps the project itself will stay "free" for some time, but will take the same way Mono did once. As company it is all about the money within Microsoft even if there are people really being into "open-source" and "free, libre software". Such a big machinery can't be changed from the inside, it'll always stop you or your planning when it comes up on money and that's the motor the capitalism is driving through. Do we get this? Or are we just that corrupted? That's the major point: Being believable includes also being sticked onto clear principles and when somebody is coming with the big money the answer stays just NO, it has to be that way because otherwise nothing will be changed for good. And the same with all those projects being hosted on Github: Leave that place, the outcome won't be better. There are others like notabug.org or libregit.org!

What is it about freedom, especially when talking about mobile devices and their operating-system? Is Android - meaning the "Android Open Source Project" - really free? Is the inclusion of the so-called "Google Applications" also freedom of choice? No, it is not and I think people should stop talking about like Google is a "helpful nice guy". Yes, as already written here within the thread: There has to be no further evil intention in the first place. But having "no intentional evil deed" does not mean, that an individual won't do anything "evil" furthermore. So, yes: Free to choose, free to use, but there is it: Free to look and having the full control? Here lies the reasoning: No further freedom to be found here. We are not free to control, but this is an elementary basis of all. The original "Android" is not free as in freedom and so Google is not free, their services are given free in the first place, but with high price afterwards: The usage of all collected data without knowledge of the user what is done with it.

Yeah, that's also part of the capitalism, as it destroys everything on its way. But freedom includes everything and instead talking about this false picture and imagery there should be more support for projects like Replicant. Including the "Google Applications" or some emulated interfaces for them is not the way to go and won't be it, forever.

But at least they aren't lying about being freedom restricting, like Trisquel, Debian, Fedora, etc...

Redhat software is freedom restricting despite its free software license. Such irony is thick enough to be used as gravy.

Okay, that's correct. But the problem itself is also: Why including non-free applications and interfaces? There are enough ports for example having Skype or Microsoft Teams. Therefore Gentoo is perhaps better, but in the end also the development is questionable when just having a look on OpenRC itself - which in fact is just distributed throughtout Github. The field of themes is so big. Sorry for having some kind of whatboutism here in the argumentation, but I have no further understatement for some people in the sphere of some distributions and projects. When talking about "freedom" it is also about talking of "freedom of choice". And OpenRC is therefore questionable in the end when being just developed on a complete proprietary platform instead on Savannah, LibreGit or Notabug for example. Another reasoning against systemd itself!

Doesn't mean that we should stop using OpenRC in the first place - systemd therefore is another thing as you already written - but we should question way more elements. Even projects like ScummVM use this proprietary hosting-platform, besides others like Discord. This is dangerous from my point of view and not a good development at all. Just the option to switch to sndio here with Hyperbola is one good example, that the generic way is correct. There should be more: Even using other INIT-systems like GNU shepherd, runit or s6 instead OpenRC: Respecting the real freedom means also respecting sideways and distributed repositories, not the big ones like Github or Gitlab itself. Deleting Github is the way to go and leaving all that crap back to Microsoft!

The elementary question: Why should "we" trust a company pretending to "love open-source" but with a complete proprietary software-stack in the backyard? And why should "we" trust projects not being able to migrate otherwise, not searching for community-driven websites like even LibreGit or NotABug? Or even create own repositories? For example: ScummVM has its very own infrastructure, but is using Github and Discord? Ah, okay? And of what reasoning? Not really helpful at all as this is all a normalization of those services and restricting software-freedom on the long run. We are talking about freedom and those things exclude everyone being not willing to support proprietary software being more and more on the rise.