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Topic: article: getting stallman wrong means getting the 21st century wrong

i havent posted here in a while--

my apologies for my previous couple of posts. ive written about its motivations (not in this article) and the points i was trying to make, extensively.

stallman recently went to microsoft, and this has resulted in a lot of speculation as to why. techrights is covering the topic extensively, and ive responded to it in my own words.

of particular relevance is what it think (spoiler: its positive) will likely become of hyperbola. im a very tough critic, very difficult to please, but i mention guix and hyperbola as being important to the future of the fsf in this article. above all, it makes the point that getting stallmans legacy right is crucial to freedom itself. i believe this, and that it is not an exaggeration. getting stallman wrong, quite simply means less freedom. thats the main point of smearing him. ive watched people do that for years, and i dont pull any punches here.

http://techrights.org/2019/09/06/rms-track-record/

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Re: article: getting stallman wrong means getting the 21st century wrong

freemedia wrote:

i havent posted here in a while--

my apologies for my previous couple of posts. ive written about its motivations (not in this article) and the points i was trying to make, extensively.

stallman recently went to microsoft, and this has resulted in a lot of speculation as to why. techrights is covering the topic extensively, and ive responded to it in my own words.

of particular relevance is what it think (spoiler: its positive) will likely become of hyperbola. im a very tough critic, very difficult to please, but i mention guix and hyperbola as being important to the future of the fsf in this article. above all, it makes the point that getting stallmans legacy right is crucial to freedom itself. i believe this, and that it is not an exaggeration. getting stallman wrong, quite simply means less freedom. thats the main point of smearing him. ive watched people do that for years, and i dont pull any punches here.

http://techrights.org/2019/09/06/rms-track-record/


I am sure he has a good motive for going to microsoft. I think he probably spoke to correct microsoft. However, I also agree even showing up there is a questionable thing to do.

I don't know what to expect regarding microsoft or RMS, but I hope he knows what he is doing.

;/

ps, yeah he does have a strange track record, especially regarding redhat's poettering software. 

DBUS, (Security risk/bloat)
NetworkManager (although it doesn't suck as much as some of his creations)
Pulseaudio (Same as above)
Systemd (Really, really bad.)
Elogind (not sure what this is)


The list goes further I am sure, but I don't know the other stuff.

My point being, avoid systemd like the plague and poettering in general including the above if possible.

NetworkManager I have mixed feelings about though but yeah, we need an alternative to that... ;/

Hyperbola:

The Stable Secure Libre Arch!

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Re: article: getting stallman wrong means getting the 21st century wrong

The article is very interesting and has many points I would absolutely aggree in: The main problem is that even the talk is not the best sign at all because this shows that Microsoft would be on the right track now. They are not, perhaps they will never be. And I just don't believe in such marketing like "We love Open-Source!". The day they release a newer Windows-version complete in form of a "source code"-package included a Copyleft-license and DirectX to the Wine-project, that day will never come but this would be the one I perhaps starting up thinking about a "change" in the mind of this "company".

As already noted above by zapper: I hope Mr. Stallman knows what he is doing and he has some good reasoning showing up at Microsoft for a talk. Otherwise this is some really bad signal at all. But we human beings could do mistakes, ideas, principles and idealistic ways are not damaged because people get on other tracks. Even though there is damage made in the last years with all those participants like Microsoft, Google, Facebook and also Canonical and Red Hat doing that. As the article points out: Projects like Hyperbola or Guix could get even greater importance at all while others failed: Not forking systemd, pulseaudio and rethink major dependencies? Great problems showing up and will do even greater damage to the ecosystem of "free, libre software" at all. And just my personal: Even if this is not intentional done by players like Microsoft, they won't stop doing that. This feigned "love" for the failed concept of "open-source". And the "open-source" idea is already damaged, without being "free and libre"!

Regarding Mr. Poettering: I think the real bad project at all was and is systemd and all of its dependencies. And this thoughts coming up with it: Hey its free, take it or leave the world of Linux! Why are you even complain? And who tells us this is staying that way? Who is telling us that this is not one more coffin nail into "free, libre software"? Exactly nobody, just those words.

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Re: article: getting stallman wrong means getting the 21st century wrong

The fact of RMS speaking at M$ reminds me of Matthew 9:10–13

Object oriented programs are offered as alternatives to correct ones ~ Edsger W. Dijkstra

5 (edited by zapper 2019-09-10 10:39:21)

Re: article: getting stallman wrong means getting the 21st century wrong

koszko wrote:

The fact of RMS speaking at M$ reminds me of Matthew 9:10–13

Yes, except that RMS isn't a perfect benevolent soul. He is good, don't get me wrong, but he has his share of flaws even with his campaign for free software/freedom.

Systemd and poettering crap, being one of the things that he hasn't addressed at all.

I do not hate networkmanager btw, but then again, we do need more alternatives. ;0

Irony that anything poettering created works at all without being crappy. 

Especially considering pulseaudio and systemd are so bad.

That aside, RMS shouldn't sugarcoat what microsoft is doing at all...

Hyperbola:

The Stable Secure Libre Arch!

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Re: article: getting stallman wrong means getting the 21st century wrong

zapper wrote:

Systemd and poettering crap, being one of the things that he hasn't addressed at all.

That also bothered me for some time. Now, reading your post,  I suddenly got an idea why this might be. RMS is an old-date hacker - he spends most of the time in tty, views most of the web pages there, etc. And at the same time most of the ppl around (especially non-technical ppl) are using fancy desktops, playing video games in HD, etc. For he's not interested in that stuff, he only insists on it all being free. PERHAPS he views the init battle the same way and doesn't want to promote or fight any of the init systems as long as all are free-licensed and don't track their users? Still, I don't know for sure...

Anyways, RMS is a strong advocate of freesw, devoting all he has into that. Perhaps it's other ppl's job to help init-freedom? You can't have one person everywhere smile

zapper wrote:

I do not hate networkmanager btw, but then again, we do need more alternatives. ;0

I tried using wicd for some time and it would lose the connection all the time on certain networks - that's why I had to go back to using nm.

zapper wrote:

That aside, RMS shouldn't sugarcoat what microsoft is doing at all...

I might be wrong here, but from what I see, most ppl in computer science don't consider his authority (at least ppl I study with, our lecturers, etc.) and ppl who do, are already freesw enthusiasts, who are not going to trust M$ anyway (well, I consider you 3 writing in this topic an example of that). Or maybe I just don't know the right communities?

Object oriented programs are offered as alternatives to correct ones ~ Edsger W. Dijkstra

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Re: article: getting stallman wrong means getting the 21st century wrong

zapper wrote:

DBUS, (Security risk/bloat)
NetworkManager (although it doesn't suck as much as some of his creations)
Pulseaudio (Same as above)
Systemd (Really, really bad.)
Elogind (not sure what this is)

systemd was created by taking various projects and sticking them together. obviously, the way they work together is new (and i dont like it either.)

some new things that are designed to work without systemd (in a true modular fashion) use elogind to provide expected functionality. elogind is based on the relevant part of systemd, it is technically independent (as far as i know.) devuan is moving towards using it, and it wont surprise me if hyperbola does in the future. either way, good luck with that.

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Re: article: getting stallman wrong means getting the 21st century wrong

freemedia wrote:

elogind is based on the relevant part of systemd, it is technically independent (as far as i know.) devuan is moving towards using it, and it wont surprise me if hyperbola does in the future. either way, good luck with that.

It's been there almost from the beginning: https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/packag … og/elogind

Elogind does seat/user/session management. There used to be a framework called Consolekit, that could be used instead... but it is not actively maintained hmm I might be wrong, but if I recall correctly, this stuff is needed to make things like "logout" button on the desktop work.

Object oriented programs are offered as alternatives to correct ones ~ Edsger W. Dijkstra

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Re: article: getting stallman wrong means getting the 21st century wrong

koszko wrote:
freemedia wrote:

elogind is based on the relevant part of systemd, it is technically independent (as far as i know.) devuan is moving towards using it, and it wont surprise me if hyperbola does in the future. either way, good luck with that.

It's been there almost from the beginning: https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/packag … og/elogind

Elogind does seat/user/session management. There used to be a framework called Consolekit, that could be used instead... but it is not actively maintained hmm I might be wrong, but if I recall correctly, this stuff is needed to make things like "logout" button on the desktop work.

We have plans to migrate from elogind to ConsoleKit for Milky Way v0.4 by including the OpenBSD stability/security patches. See our TODO about it for further details.