1

Topic: gaming

I'm not much of a gamer, but I was very grateful to see up to date Minetest packages in the repository. I feel that there is definitely a need for libre games like Minetest that are originally created as alternatives to popular proprietary games. Nobody questions this in other forms of culture, such as music, film, or paperback books.

I am interested in learning more about gaming culture and how to protect the gamers in my life from predatory corporations.

2

Re: gaming

Interesting thought and thanks for posting those here. It would be great having more libre games being accessible for everyone, especially when thinking about DRM (= Digital Rights Management) and platforms like Steam, Origin, UPlay and more getting just important these days being already defective by design building barriers used for some kind of false protection. In fact all of this is just the wrong way in my point of view: Other way around it would be interesting on how to preserve those games for the future. And not about that: It's already toxic because people being not independent from those proprietary contents.

Releasing the source code and even the content open for modifications and enhancements. Just as it was done for Warzone 2100! But this is just one single good decision under all those proprietary and closed ones we have. It's a pity!

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom.

3

Re: gaming

throgh wrote:

Interesting thought and thanks for posting those here. It would be great having more libre games being accessible for everyone, especially when thinking about DRM (= Digital Rights Management) and platforms like Steam, Origin, UPlay and more getting just important these days being already defective by design building barriers used for some kind of false protection. In fact all of this is just the wrong way in my point of view: Other way around it would be interesting on how to preserve those games for the future. And not about that: It's already toxic because people being not independent from those proprietary contents.

Releasing the source code and even the content open for modifications and enhancements. Just as it was done for Warzone 2100! But this is just one single good decision under all those proprietary and closed ones we have. It's a pity!

I would love it if most of this one game I played was under a free license.  I also would love it if, battle.net was liberated even if its under MIT license and people can still use a non-free server.  Having an option is better than no option.

PS, the game I mention which I wish was under a free license, is called Starcraft.

Hyperbola:

The Stable Secure Libre Arch!

4 (edited by throgh 2019-12-02 21:45:27)

Re: gaming

zapper wrote:

I would love it if most of this one game I played was under a free license.  I also would love it if, battle.net was liberated even if its under MIT license and people can still use a non-free server.  Having an option is better than no option.

PS, the game I mention which I wish was under a free license, is called Starcraft.

Sorry for a really late reply from my side: Yes, that would be outstanding. For now we have some first steps as devilutionX is available for example: Playing Diablo native under GNU/Linux is one cool thing (Link, WARNING: Github). But after all this is only the binary for the game itself while content is not free and libre, not being even available under a copyleft or permissive license. But noted: First steps coming up while I don't believe Blizzard Entertainment is giving up those content - talking about all stories and worlds from them including WarCraft, StarCraft and Diablo. That's not my personal wording as I've taken this from other discussions I've had already regarding libre gaming in the past. For people intentionally and deeply believing in capitalism as a system a copyleft or permissive license just looks like theft. A toxic smear phrase, but it is already used and just for the records the last discussion was on the forum of GOG (formerly known as: Good Old Games). Using this intentionally means people just don't think further and instead beginning with real bad insults. I was named "radical", "dreamer" and further ableism speakup I won't repeat here, but therefore my point as there is the thought "money is lost" - the obligatory toxic waste of capitalism. But long story short and better back to the topic itself! wink

There is more:

You know about PVPGN (sorry, again Github)? Real interesting project and working as I've played already with friends and family. And yes: You can build up your own. So you can use StarCraft under Wine for playing and connect with an own server for playing. The project devilutionX is not ready yet for connecting throughout PVPGN, but they are working on it.

At last a game is only free when code and content are released under a free license - mentioning Warzone 2100 here again as good example. There are others like OpenMW, Arx Liberatis or OpenXcom, but those are engine-replacements, a running framework needing the original and patched game-data staying therefore proprietary. So gaming itself stays one big mess: Yes, libre and free games are available but not many. Yes, there are really cool projects ongoing like FreeOrion for example, but most people don't want to have closer look as they want some kind cineastic event when "playing" - those are not longer really games from my point of view and I like therefore the classics using DOSBox, ScummVM, PCSX and Vice for example.

A a little note: There are also implementations working under GNU/Linux for Albion, WarCraft: Orcs & Humans, X-Com 1 and X-Com 2. Have a look here (again Github): https://github.com/M-HT/SR

NOTE: Wow, I've just seen M-HT also added support for Septerra Core: Legacy of the Creator into his SR-project. Well, pardon me, but I'm going to search for my CDs back then! big_smile

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom.

5 (edited by zapper 2019-12-02 22:04:22)

Re: gaming

throgh wrote:
zapper wrote:

I would love it if most of this one game I played was under a free license.  I also would love it if, battle.net was liberated even if its under MIT license and people can still use a non-free server.  Having an option is better than no option.

PS, the game I mention which I wish was under a free license, is called Starcraft.

Sorry for a really late reply from my side: Yes, that would be outstanding. For now we have some first steps as devilutionX is available for example: Playing Diablo native under GNU/Linux is one cool thing (Link, WARNING: Github). But after all this is only the binary for the game itself while content is not free and libre, not being even available under a copyleft or permissive license. But noted: First steps coming up while I don't believe Blizzard Entertainment is giving up those content - talking about all stories and worlds from them including WarCraft, StarCraft and Diablo. That's not my personal wording as I've taken this from other discussions I've had already regarding libre gaming in the past. For people intentionally and deeply believing in capitalism as a system a copyleft or permissive license just looks like theft. A toxic smear phrase, but it is already used and just for the records the last discussion was on the forum of GOG (formerly known as: Good Old Games). Using this intentionally means people just don't think further and instead beginning with real bad insults. I was named "radical", "dreamer" and further ableism speakup I won't repeat here, but therefore my point as there is the thought "money is lost" - the obligatory toxic waste of capitalism. But long story short and better back to the topic itself! wink

There is more:

You know about PVPGN (sorry, again Github)? Real interesting project and working as I've played already with friends and family. And yes: You can build up your own. So you can use StarCraft under Wine for playing and connect with an own server for playing. The project devilutionX is not ready yet for connecting throughout PVPGN, but they are working on it.

At last a game is only free when code and content are released under a free license - mentioning Warzone 2100 here again as good example. There are others like OpenMW, Arx Liberatis or OpenXcom, but those are engine-replacements, a running framework needing the original and patched game-data staying therefore proprietary. So gaming itself stays one big mess: Yes, libre and free games are available but not many. Yes, there are really cool projects ongoing like FreeOrion for example, but most people don't want to have closer look as they want some kind cineastic event when "playing" - those are not longer really games from my point of view and I like therefore the classics using DOSBox, ScummVM, PCSX and Vice for example.

A a little note: There are also implementations working under GNU/Linux for Albion, WarCraft: Orcs & Humans, X-Com 1 and X-Com 2. Have a look here (again Github): https://github.com/M-HT/SR

NOTE: Wow, I've just seen M-HT also added support for Septerra Core: Legacy of the Creator into his SR-project. Well, pardon me, but I'm going to search for my CDs back then! big_smile

Yep, I feel ya, capitalism is a crux.  Those people who believe in it, are to put it bluntly, greedy and a-holes.

It isn't theft as far as I am concerned to make such a game under a permissive license unless people are dumb.  Besides, with their name recognition, I doubt people would be in a hurry to play non-battle.net unless they majorly "screwed up" to be gentle... rather than a certian other word...

Besides, how much money does blizzard need before they are completely satisfied anyhow?  I really don't get this... at all.

Copyright is 70 years + the creators death. That only seeks to help corporations more than even the author himself...

meh... greed is so confusing.  But yeah, would it kill blizzard to even put the engine itself they made the game with under a free license like the doom creators did?  Hmm... well I guess either they A: don't want to, or B: don't own the engine or C: Both

Honestly, if its A or C, they really have greed issues like most corporations.  Meh... oh well

It would at least be nice if someone could make an easy to use free software game with the same kind of easy to learn gameplay for starcraft players. Although this would require a lot of time, money and lawyers possibly too. Like Bobby Prince ;P

He apparently was a part of the doom project and other games and he knew how to get close to ripping off music without getting in trouble.  Because again, he was a lawyer... ;P

Anyways, if someone makes a clone with some similiarity and there is no legal trouble, let me know. smile

Hyperbola:

The Stable Secure Libre Arch!

6 (edited by throgh 2019-12-02 23:11:16)

Re: gaming

Hey there is already some kind of comparable game, but not exactly with the scenario. I'm talking about Stratagus. which does in fact the same: Giving a framework for realtime-strategy. And a game created with it: Wyrmsun has many interesting features and is ready for playing. There is also a PKGBUILD within the AUR: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/wyrmsun/

But I would recommend an earlier version: https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/ … 434b2a45e4

I've tried it and it is really a cool game using already a little bit more open licensing. But short back to Blizzard: We are talking about option A and therefore about greed. Blizzard could sell black boxes with nothing more as paper noting "Coming soon" within and people would buy and as they are in the same assumption about capitalism as others (talking about Apple, Microsoft, Google etc.) they don't tolerate projects trying something away from their own agenda. They even locked up players when they doesn't fit into a scheme and being a risk for making more money: https://www.polygon.com/2019/10/8/20904 … -suspended

To my personal view: Yes, we are talking about greed in its absolute form and buildout. Therefore no further support for Blizzard from my side besides playing the classics from time to time - as I own my local copy without any further DRM.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom.

7 (edited by zapper 2019-12-03 00:07:52)

Re: gaming

throgh wrote:

Hey there is already some kind of comparable game, but not exactly with the scenario. I'm talking about Stratagus. which does in fact the same: Giving a framework for realtime-strategy. And a game created with it: Wyrmsun has many interesting features and is ready for playing. There is also a PKGBUILD within the AUR: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/wyrmsun/

But I would recommend an earlier version: https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/ … 434b2a45e4

I've tried it and it is really a cool game using already a little bit more open licensing. But short back to Blizzard: We are talking about option A and therefore about greed. Blizzard could sell black boxes with nothing more as paper noting "Coming soon" within and people would buy and as they are in the same assumption about capitalism as others (talking about Apple, Microsoft, Google etc.) they don't tolerate projects trying something away from their own agenda. They even locked up players when they doesn't fit into a scheme and being a risk for making more money: https://www.polygon.com/2019/10/8/20904 … -suspended

To my personal view: Yes, we are talking about greed in its absolute form and buildout. Therefore no further support for Blizzard from my side besides playing the classics from time to time - as I own my local copy without any further DRM.


That's news to me that Wyrmsun even exists, thanks for telling me. I had no idea.  I think whether its option A OR C, it doesn't matter, its evil regardless. 

As for,  the polygon link, I never realized blizzard did that... I realized they had some issues... but that's just sad. its so ungodly and malicious that I don't know whether to have pity for their worthless souls or be angry or shake my head.  I think its pathetic though regardless...

Even if other countries don't like it, never work with dictator countries no matter how much money or what stupid logic they come up with...

Hyperbola:

The Stable Secure Libre Arch!

8 (edited by throgh 2019-12-03 07:49:46)

Re: gaming

For me (my point of viewing) the people in Hongkong are doing resistance against upcoming dictatorial government. It's a major question how it also ending for all of us with all the governments getting more authoritarian in time. As protectionism never works besides for me thoughts about nationalism and more are never acceptable. As human beings we are just guests here on earth and so we should find a way living together, but that's just a topic so big we could make a complete discussion and talking round out of it, even more than that. The step Blizzard had taken was just wrong and uncovered up their minding. Just to take this and how people react or better how short the protests were (in the news, forums, comments and real world) as afterwards people didn't exclude playing their games - most of them are just "online" today. Entertainment seems more important than support for rights and dignity. The question is: When do "we" begin with a change? On so many levels there is work to be done: Software freedom? Freedom of living together and solving the upcoming challenges? Holding peace for every being, respecting every being (meaning all residents of the earth) as we're just guests here?

We are human beings, we are making mistakes, but we should learn from them. wink Perhaps people in China will change the scheme and the protests in Hongkong are just a beginning? I hope there is a chance, because talking and showing other ways are far more helpful. Blizzard did the opposite of it: Enforcing and ruling with the fear in mind for a loss of money. Besides of the concurrent events "talking and showing" can also go terribly wrong as our history with colonialism and slavery showed. But underlining this again: Just big topics for more discussion rounds as even revolutions have gone in another direction about time, changed the more and nothing. To use some simple sentence: In the end the revolution eaten up its children (coming up from the French Revolution)! So my wording is not about desperation instead of learning together from history and events, fighting back with ways including the exchange of views all the time, writing and talking about for developing ideas as every being on earth has the right to live in dignity and freedom. An utopian view perhaps? Could be, but better to begin with the maximum and never stop looking for it as my "personal freedom" is not more important than others and I have no right to begin with harassment or even questioning their basic rights. Another failure of us humans as it seems we cannot manage accepting (to use "Star Trek" on here) IDIC: Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. smile

But we have mentioned here some more free, libre games: To get more on-topic, would it help building a list with known or unknown free implementations, engines and full games?

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom.

9

Re: gaming

Well, I think it is a nice idea having a list of possible applications and also games . Did this in the past for some start of a project for "free soft- and hardware", but there were never really more interest about as participants were only interested on their own benefits - besides a really important point as "own freedom in correlation with freedom for everyone". I'd create another topic beginning with a listing! smile

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom.

10 (edited by throgh 2019-12-07 11:24:41)

Re: gaming

So after Google Stadia being now available and will become accessible for more users out there next year: We should face the reality. Modern games are nothing more than proprietary garbage, speaking for most of them. Yes, there are some exceptions, but what do we got? Ports of some companies as some kind leftover? Engine-outage from middleware-productions (naming Unity, Unreal etc.), including telemetry without asking and opt-in? Exclusions most done for classics and older titles: Enthusiasts porting the engines being libre software and the games could be run native. But most of the content is just staying closed source while there is a free, libre environment throughout the port. And we are not even at major questions: What about titles getting older and being only available throughout proprietary "stores" like Steam? The reality: Most people are not interested within free, libre games as they just want entertainment and they take everything, even if the costs and risks are just as high as seen at last with Google Stadia. News-portals like "Gaming on Linux" just talk about proprietary titles being released most of the time, no further news about progress regarding freedom and libre projects - okay when projects like "Battle for Wesnoth" go for Steam this is worthy for news.

There is work to be done here, much work as it is a discussion based about ignorance and arrogance. Trying out to speak with gaming interested humans about free, libre software? A very complicated discussion, because principles are just ignored and the comments under most articles on "Gaming on Linux" show this picture: Cheering up for Steam and Google Stadia, because it is about "some kind of Linux". And there goes the freedom and the privacy, making a free ecosystem to anouther copy of proprietary, toxic wasteland.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom.