276 (edited by Librecat2 2022-07-14 20:34:55)

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Very nice ideas but what are you actually doing to make them happen
I like thinking about amazing things too but i realized they are mostly useless if they are just ideas. Applies to any topic

277

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Depends on the part: Speaking about free and libre soft- and hardware? We are here doing the part already. Speaking about "gaming" especially? About usage of non-free service and more? That depends on the decision of every individual. Therefore those threads like this one here. To explain, to criticize, to scribble possible consequences. And for sure we can already see them: More complexity, lesser possible freedom at every corner. It depends if people adapt to that or decide for something different. It is not up to me alone, to us here to decide for everyone. That has everyone do on a very personal way. And if "free culture" is vanishing? Well, as long as one person is using something it is not away. wink

So the decision for free culture, for free software itself is a personal one. There can be something in between. But nevertheless: Any compromise to be done has a price to be paid. It can be small one, but it can be also more. So the point:

Librecat2 wrote:

Very nice ideas but what are you actually doing to make them happen
I like thinking about amazing things too but i realized they are mostly useless if they are just ideas. Applies to any topic

You can already see here what is done. The rest is up to every individual for a decision. It is therefore per definition not useless. It won't help to "forbid" something like "Steam" or "forbid" projects using non-free services. It is just a question, a very simple on: Is it helpful in the long-run? The answer most easy: No it won't. But here again: Freedom is not vanishing right from the point. It is a slowly process. A democracy is not dying right out of a point. That's a slowly process the same. To note the points, to warn about them: That's also part of the doing. So also the warnings are not "useless". It is up to everyone listening or not listening. And it is for sure not only up to me or some others changing something. That's a task for everyone at every day. And if someone does not want to read all of this? Well, no one is forced to read through. wink No one is forced for anything. But there stays the responsibility. Doing "something" is on every level: Helping here? Making some thoughts elsewhere? Small tasks, bigger ones. Hyperbola is for example not only an idea or some concept on the paper. I understand your point, but that's like a puzzle, a very chaotic one as we have billions of ideas as much as earthlings living. So the on-going part is to look out, to warn, to be active and inform when something is going bad.

And the forum here is not the only space where to write down, to discuss and more. So I do that also analogue and that quite more often than here: Discussing and going into the retrospective for ideas. The best to be done besides for sure doing all that here as it as written: Not using some toxic / non-free platforms, clear debates and arguments, open and friendly, with empathy and solidarity. The life is too short as we should think of being only "digital", but we should also defend data and have possibilities for open future. That is an individual decision and will forever be useful and believable when done.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

278

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

You know that projects like Libreboot are important, because they have brought more free hardware and possibilities. But nowadays it is more important to have "more": More systems supported, more popularity to be made. Instead of having Libreboot as project there will be more or less just a name and switch left. The project will be merged together with osboot and now it is finally clear why Leah did those harsh and not needed steps by throwing all the rest of the team out: https://libreboot.org/news/libreboot202 … oot-merger

In the end it was always a decision about "more":  Taking a step backward in freedom after this release making free software a switch rather than being the absolute default. For about not being believable. Leah Rowe could have easily brought her project "osboot" further without doing that step and leaving the project Libreboot as it is, including the democratic structure of the project. All in all is no longer there and there is no reasoning about being pragmatic like "Look, there is just another fresh release!". Yes, there is and this does meaning what for the future? Nothing at all. We should stop with embracing illusions and nice dreamcastles to be built. This was and is only a decision to bring "osboot" into and leaving Libreboot without any further meaning. A decision about capitalistic ideas also, for "more" modern machines being sold and not machines being really free. The same stuff Purism is telling, with a slight different taste at all (https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?id=276). But if people want to believe in those marketing-stuff? Free culture, free soft- and hardware does need more but for sure not those lies. Besides: I won't mention environment and climate further as our global human society seems to have learned nothing. Have fun with it, but well just a sidenote: There is no "deal" or "compromise" to be made with any part of nature. wink

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

279 (edited by Librecat2 2022-07-21 06:05:49)

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

This makes me sad. Sure i don't use a fully libre setup and don't plan to but i do want the option to exist and be viable for those that want to


EDIT: I am finally happy with a minimal window manager. Namely:i3

280

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

There is always the chance to save the sources and the resulting roms, so you can for sure rebuild or modify them also in the future. Nevertheless: This is the absolute basic recommendation. The "internet" can for sure forget and this is done very fast, more than we would wish for. And for this process information is getting lost. Perhaps not forever, but there is a very high chance for this and it is growing with even more services in the rise where nothing is steady, all is on the move and people are just searching for the "newest", the "freshest" and "more" in general. Not all  bad, but without an legit way, just "progress" this is going bad for sure.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

281

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

The neverending illusion to be told: "Work hard, work even harder and you make it one day. Work smart, work smarter and you will have enough!"

No, it will be never "enough". Never stopping the consume and never stopping the mentioned foul tale of capitalism. What do you have at the end, when you get the feedback being ill from working too much? No money can make chronic problems vanishing then. And please: With those tales we are ruining the life of so many individuals and earthlings here. It is a vicious circle also as the technical progression especially is not for making life easier. It is just for "more consume" therefore. Buy smart and hard, as you work smart and hard? Come on, people. Think again as those are for sure not the future. Too much suffering for all of that!

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

282

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

From that moment so-called "platforms" taking over for the communication, centralizing that and making the people believe they need them, the "internet" in a whole was and is damaged. Platforms like Twitter, Facebook, Mastodon, YouTube, Diaspora and more have done so much damage to our living and people still believe you can "communicate" throughout them. Just a big NO. There is no real communication, no discussion. It is just the endless search for attention. Yes, there are people trying to do the opposite, sharing information and communicate for more empathy. But for real: Those are the minority. Most people just search for entertainment and foremost that at the cost of others. There is so much wrong with all of that and I have not even named the usage from companies to wash their hands in innocence with using symbols like the rainbow-flag.

It is disgusting: Those symbols have a meaning. But you think for real that companies use them for the better? Come on. That's is just the point for illusions and the already here named marketing, nothing more. Otherwise: Where is the support with financials? And where is the direct handle when people are treated so bad within those companies? You fight endless and run behind others just to get the knowledge that you are nothing more than an "object" for them.

The "platforms" named did and do so much damage and the reasoning? Because hatred is better for numbers, for getting attentions. Creating emotions for the bad moments. But is done? We forget that there should be done the opposite. Instead of searching for attention, where is the work done for the better? Helping instead of pretending to it, of using false imagery. Real help is nothing to be mentioned and make marketing with it like countless "influencing" people and accounts are doing. And what is the conclusion? Those helping exactly the way mentioned are also misused in the end. We are loosing: Our empathy, our integrity and our emotions are used for marketing only. This will create even more darker outcomes when we don't stop it, right here and now. There is no usage for the named platforms at all. We would get the information also elsewhere and our way to inform would be not overblown as it is right now, full with hatred and harassment. You know that those won't stay right "digital"? We all know that this is going first from words and second than for sure to real deeds.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

283

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Let's talk about democracy: It is one of the highest values for us living together. But we should all acknowledge that this is nothing being eternal in guarantee. It is something we need to "fight" for on a daily base: We need discussions, reflections and retrospectives. We need to look back for looking forward and learning from history. Also we need to be honest to ourself: Making mistakes is not that bad when we are willing to learn. But here comes the problem: When we stop all that and think about only the wording "strong leadership", we have stopped for sure also completely learning or showing the will to learn. What is a society not willing to protect each other? What is a society worth believing only in some relgious fundmentalism? When people are for sure handled absolutely cruel just because of their look, because of who they are, where they come from or because they are just different from some false defined "normal", we loose our essential humanism and the approach of principles and values a democracy is built on top: Every voice is counting, everyone is there to attend and being part, no difference is made.

But we make already again differences. And to state: The essential democracy is in danger when we believe in lies, within absurdities and forget about science and facts just because we want "strong leadership". Was the history not enough to learn from, dear mankind? What do you need more? Just look at what is going on now. You want really the deadly circle again? From democracy towards aristocracy or oligarchy, then further towards monarchy (the darkest ones from old times back and not any kind of noble perspective) and then tyranny and dictatorship. At the end perhaps democracy is returning, but at highest costs: Endless suffering of minorities, cruel deeds and wars. Learning from history before it is too late for being believable. Fight with reasonable arguments for democracy, with empathy and solidarity, every day again. And what do you think comes out when you fight cruelty with another cruelty? When you make insults on platforms towards others? When you stay harsh or do something called "shitposting". That word especially is just another worthless handle and self-claimed argument for doing something cruel: "It is just irony and sarcasm!" No it is not. It is just that: Being cruel, harsh and ignorant. There is no way around that, no word to describe that "friendly". Better to stay out of that: The resulting bitter taste will influence the future behaviour of generations to come and we have already made that even worse. Better to cut this all, cut off the platforms already so often mentioned before it is too late. It depends on everyone for a decision. What should it be? Ignorance and arrogance? Or thinking for the better? Learning kindness is so important and a base for democratic stances and discussions. When we loose our inner kindness, we also loose our ability to communicate throughout a colourful space of words and phrases, to express empathy and get it back from others. We don't need "strong leadership", we need people understanding empathy and the high values.

And please: Just when you see someone posting bad and hateful "meme-imagery" and you ask the person if this is meant seriously ... don't even think the answer "No, it is just a joke" is correct. Why then even posting images and other insulting and harassing texts? It is meant seriously, in every part. Making jokes about fascism, playing with imagery and symbols is nothing of a joke. It is a danger exactly for our discussion-culture and therefore in the end also for democracy. Talking seriously and correct with each other! wink

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

284

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Let's talk about "cancel culture" and no: I'm not sorry to bring up exactly many of the dangerous words, phrases and actions here. The reasoning is just that easy: All is connected. You cannot get any technological background free from that, because free culture and free soft- / hardware are essential and to their roots political. So is there a "cancel culture"? Short and easiest answer: No, there is not. Guess what: Those words are just used to marginalize and demonize groups rising up voices against imbalanced, unfair and even hateful actions. But the spectrum is also deeper as people do fingerpointing and using those wording for make others accountable for whatever.

To describe how the “cancel culture” discourse works: It relies on a complete inversion of the actual balance of power by way of complete abstraction, portraying traditionally marginalized groups and their quest for respect and equality as an assault on freedom. No, "freedom" does for sure NOT include the right to insult and harass people right away as YOU want. Being criticized and having consequences of actions is the point. To understand that there is a concept of power and empowerment also. Giving people their diginity would be a first step instead of calling out something "cancel culture" without even trying to understand the connections and the happenings at all. It is complex, damn big complex for sure. Yes, all is connected and there is the problem: Either individuals warning endless without being heard, or we change something for sure. Why do I state especially that? Because it has not to be that complex when we think together about solutions, for a good way living together instead of running behind greed and power endless.

You can see: All the phrases and words are used for one single purpose and this means to preserve power for the "correct ones". That needs to end, if we ever want to think about a future in peace and democracy. Start to reflect own privileges for being believable!

People tell themselves gruesome things and lies before they commit atrocities. Paranoid conspiracy theories, false claims of victimization, and overt threats don't always lead to violence. But when political violence happens, rhetoric like this typically paved the way and that is all what to see with the word mentioned here. Nothing more and nothing less, but a full blown dangerous course.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

285

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Librecat2 wrote:

This makes me sad. Sure i don't use a fully libre setup and don't plan to but i do want the option to exist and be viable for those that want to


EDIT: I am finally happy with a minimal window manager. Namely:i3

DRM-Free hardware ***might*** be possible somewhere down the road, design wise, similar to mnt reform with LS1028A, without needing any harmful blobs that cause problems and supporting all the features without needing any DRM and possibly be 10x more efficient, or fast, or parts of both.

Btw, regarding i3-wm, do you get similar preformance to jwm on that?

With or without jwmkit added btw.

I ask, because that was my first window manager that I got attached to.

smile

HyperbolaBSD: The Future of Secure Libre Lightweight Operating Systems!

286 (edited by zapper 2022-08-05 04:15:13)

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

throgh wrote:

Let's talk about "cancel culture" and no: I'm not sorry to bring up exactly many of the dangerous words, phrases and actions here. The reasoning is just that easy: All is connected. You cannot get any technological background free from that, because free culture and free soft- / hardware are essential and to their roots political. So is there a "cancel culture"? Short and easiest answer: No, there is not. Guess what: Those words are just used to marginalize and demonize groups rising up voices against imbalanced, unfair and even hateful actions. But the spectrum is also deeper as people do fingerpointing and using those wording for make others accountable for whatever.

To describe how the “cancel culture” discourse works: It relies on a complete inversion of the actual balance of power by way of complete abstraction, portraying traditionally marginalized groups and their quest for respect and equality as an assault on freedom. No, "freedom" does for sure NOT include the right to insult and harass people right away as YOU want. Being criticized and having consequences of actions is the point. To understand that there is a concept of power and empowerment also. Giving people their diginity would be a first step instead of calling out something "cancel culture" without even trying to understand the connections and the happenings at all. It is complex, damn big complex for sure. Yes, all is connected and there is the problem: Either individuals warning endless without being heard, or we change something for sure. Why do I state especially that? Because it has not to be that complex when we think together about solutions, for a good way living together instead of running behind greed and power endless.

You can see: All the phrases and words are used for one single purpose and this means to preserve power for the "correct ones". That needs to end, if we ever want to think about a future in peace and democracy. Start to reflect own privileges for being believable!

People tell themselves gruesome things and lies before they commit atrocities. Paranoid conspiracy theories, false claims of victimization, and overt threats don't always lead to violence. But when political violence happens, rhetoric like this typically paved the way and that is all what to see with the word mentioned here. Nothing more and nothing less, but a full blown dangerous course.

You may indeed have a point regarding cloud storage, even if someone had a travel router that had very strong encryption and had some way, to embed deep inside of it some self-hosted cloud, storage, that  was made to be only be accessed with ****only that router****

I wonder if even that would be good enough, even if it was like HyperbolaBSD will turn out to be if it is as good as OpenBSD at security and was also libre and minimal.

The alternative architecture idea, is not the main problem.  Also, libreboot is not fully libre and no one really knows the extent of the EC firmware issues they might have. though that isn't really the issue, below is a good example:

Btw, there might not seem to be an evil masterplan even when it was started, but it can very easily be used for one...

That is the issue

Btw, humans being told they are descendants of apes, is not really something most people agree with and if it was for some reason actually true, which I highly doubt, let us just say...

There are many, many people who would, consider that a massive insult and some would even be confused by the concept of why humans are so much different than society and the rabbit hole list  begins to expand beyond that to very subterranean levels from there...

You honestly have a better chance convincing, me or the majority of people that bigfoot and the lochness monster existed at one point/ than for most people to believe that.

I have almost no preference on that view, other than to say:

I doubt it, but its possible, but somewhat irrelevant. Others however think that is impossible and would never even give it more than a minute of thought, or maybe less. xD

I should also add, that, for some people, that is horrible for self-esteem and if they thought, the concept of a creator was nonexistent, some would honestly, if they got into a painful enough situation, well...

I fear some would honestly want to ***end it***

Also, with the way some situations have become in the world, I think we have good evidence, if nothing else, of pure evil actually existing... so... yeah, there is definitely a force of evil.

Just look up people who make light of certain shootings in america to the point where they redirect people to go after the survivors rather than have sensible gun reform...

If that isn't a sign of someone who is pure evil, I don't know what is...

Also...

Hitler...

Yeah...

In order to find hope, you must not allow yourself to reject reality without checking to see if there is any evidence to the contrary...

Also,  if there is a force of evil, there is definitely a force of good as well...

Btw, I hope you are indeed right that there isn't a masterplan, otherwise, the next attempt could very well succeed.

But yeah, I hope for a better world, for the future... anywho, done with this thread for a bit... peace!


Actually, my better instincts tells me, I should probably mention this, but I do not control what people want to think or believe, otherwise, no one would be completely rejecting reality and  we would all be the same, etc..

Think what you want, but please, measure it against what I have said against your thoughts and the evidence that I layed out below at the minimum.

smile

HyperbolaBSD: The Future of Secure Libre Lightweight Operating Systems!

287

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

zapper wrote:

Btw, humans being told they are descendants of apes, is not really something most people agree with and if it was for some reason actually true, which I highly doubt, let us just say...

We humans have no right to think about us being higher than anything else. That's the ignorance and arrogance I have already mentioned here uncountable times in the thread, meant absolutely general as approach and I don't see any need to discuss that matter even further. No one is hurt from that, when mention science and perspectives discovered. It is a thing about holding the "power" and there is the point.

zapper wrote:

There are many, many people who would, consider that a massive insult and some would even be confused by the concept of why humans are so much different than society and the rabbit hole list  begins to expand beyond that to very subterranean levels from there...

You honestly have a better chance convincing, me or the majority of people that bigfoot and the lochness monster existed at one point/ than for most people to believe that.

I have almost no preference on that view, other than to say:

I doubt it, but its possible, but somewhat irrelevant. Others however think that is impossible and would never even give it more than a minute of thought, or maybe less. xD

I should also add, that, for some people, that is horrible for self-esteem and if they thought, the concept of a creator was nonexistent, some would honestly, if they got into a painful enough situation, well...

This thread and the warnings are just reflection and retrospective. If someone is reading and thinking further? Good, exactly that's the point. It is not my task to convince anyone from anything. If people reject science and facts? Okay, fine. Their decision to do. But it is just that: By thinking everyone has to believe that or being offended throughout just those points we will ruin our complete society and risk all what is left from democracy at that point. It's just that point. You have not to believe me and I don't see any point to convince anyone. This thread exists only about just one perspective: Retrospective. And beyond that:

zapper wrote:

I fear some would honestly want to ***end it***

Also, with the way some situations have become in the world, I think we have good evidence, if nothing else, of pure evil actually existing... so... yeah, there is definitely a force of evil.

Just look up people who make light of certain shootings in america to the point where they redirect people to go after the survivors rather than have sensible gun reform...

If that isn't a sign of someone who is pure evil, I don't know what is...

Also...

Hitler...

Yeah...

In order to find hope, you must not allow yourself to reject reality without checking to see if there is any evidence to the contrary...

Also,  if there is a force of evil, there is definitely a force of good as well...

Btw, I hope you are indeed right that there isn't a masterplan, otherwise, the next attempt could very well succeed.

But yeah, I hope for a better world, for the future... anywho, done with this thread for a bit... peace!


Actually, my better instincts tells me, I should probably mention this, but I do not control what people want to think or believe, otherwise, no one would be completely rejecting reality and  we would all be the same, etc..

Think what you want, but please, measure it against what I have said against your thoughts and the evidence that I layed out below at the minimum.

smile

The mentioned name of the leader of national-socialists at the time back approves the point even more: We have to fight with other things like "believing". We have facts enough approving that living in peace is worth, living in dignity for all earthlings (ALL is meant for real) is worth. But there is a line and it is just simple: The "pure evil" is a definition as everyone is able to do "all evil" and recognizing it would be the minimum we need. There are people out there thinking about being the neighbors of "Mr. Donald Duck" himself. That's just fine when they have nevertheless recognized that they could harm others. And it is for sure no harm, when confronted with that facts.

I know what you wanted to show: But it is the point that if we ever want to live in peace we have to confront those people not willing to accept peace, democracy and a colorful world. There is no way around that confrontation and for now we have the chance to remember each other that the road to cruel deeds can be very small. I would be cautious with the phrase "I would never do": As it is shown only within the concrete situation what we are able or what we are not. Speaking out for others is one thing we can do just now. Speaking out for science and facts, for protection of that, for fighting for democracy is a thing to do now before it is too late. Especially those people could not care less about a balance of powers when talking about "ending something". As when they have the power to make you believe absurdities they also have the power to make you commit injustices at once. smile And personally again to underline: I don't and won't accept that at any point. There are beliefs being for sure harmless: Science and questioning in an iterative construct, we have literally enough to question and learn every day again. Doing peer reviews, doing discussions and question a good way for all included. But there is also beliefs being harmful: Named one is "mine is better than yours" or also the perspective to make foul compromises because some religious feelings are offended. There are things we need to respect and reflect: Discrimination, hatred, racism and more. But when somebody wants to "end" something, just because a conservative perspective on everything is hurt ... oh well, as said: I could not care less about that kind of feelings as those would surpress more people when given enough "power". The concept of "freedom" is also the concept to understand the other part for "rules". And earth for example could also not care less about our imaginations. smile

This thread in its existence to explain is the part for a warning, because "free culture" has enough to discover for times coming. We have already now problems:

- with foul compromises
- with ignorance and arrogance
- with mixing beliefs into where facts are
- with using technical toolsets to take democratic values away, part by part

The "pure evil" is the face we see everyday again in the mirror, when we are not willing to learn. That's the condition why this thread is existing. It is not to convince someone. It is just that: Warning and finding ways to explain, to also include especially the "free culture" with the wording "culture" in mind especially. It is such a big word, with so many parts and also including ways of living.

But especially onto one point you have already mentioned: The reformation of weapons usage in the US. Yes, absolutely agreed at the situation. As I have said: I understand for sure where you are coming from at the point. But here is again the tryout for an explanation as there are so many parts: The missing acceptance of others empathy and solidarity? The head through the wall because "government" is so much "bad"? The "own freedom" counting more than everything and everyone else? The conservative perspective of "me is more than the rest and rest has to follow me"? I have mentioned all those injustice perspectives for a reasoning: There is for real a small road up ahead. The little dictator is waiting for the big fascist and this one again for the national-socialist to come destroying "unworthy beings". It is all connected. But that's just this first, zapper: Please feel safe here at first. Please all: Feel safe. We are living in strange times. Perhaps everyone said that back forever? But it is just that: We need all together. There is no "worth" for being believable. It is just: Everyone, every earthling is there and it is okay. wink
Nevertheless I don't care if hating people (haters) feel uncomfortable when reading postings, this one here and this thread is made to discuss and give something also we need within all: Hope.

Oh and a note:

In the end it was not Hitler and the national-socialist party alone getting me. It was my neighbor Klaus-Walther given a uniform and the thought to have power to decide everything he wants. The system made it possible, but it was the own decision of the people. Of everyone to do or not.

It is complex, damn big complex. But we can learn up from the smaller scale. Trying to do it every day again. And I mean it when I state: Never again. It won't be also not that kind again, but it could be even worse? We should have no need finding it out. Therefore this thread here.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

288

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Complex? Yes it is... agree with you there, 100%

As for the whole, I would never do expression, yeah... your right.

As for the idea of religion, I don't consider christianity to be a religion... otherwise the main person to worship, Jesus aka... would not be against  the religious people, the most in the bible, in the four gospels, etc...

That being said, I don't honestly think killing Christianity completely would solve anything... same with beliefs of similar natures, etc...

To be honest, humans will always find a way to push themselves towards evil, with or without a concept of a God.

Also, humans have more intelligence then most animals in nature. Of course we aren't higher beings though, our actions demonstrate that time and time again.


Btw, the real problem of what actually is causing the most damage, to be honest, is very simple:

"Manipulators"

The problem anoher words, is similar to how computers get viruses... its the tools humans already have access too.

Besides, the population of people who believe in christianity as an ideal, is decreasing as time passes...

And yet, the world is getting worse and worse as time passes.

I am not sure how people can deny this...

Long story short, 

Pure Evil exists, not even just as a force, but people who align themselves with the worst parts of wickedness that has ever existed since 1942, it grows...

I hoped I made my point clear, but yeah... guess not lol.

Either way,  intelligence humans have way more than animals with regard to physical knowledge, as for emotional and mental sanity, that is an entirely different story.

Especially since the year 2000.


The only cure, is for people to stop doing this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dungeonmaster

The line I speak of, should be fairly obvious...

"I reject your reality and I substitute my own."

Been used by a specific group of nutjobs, the only ones who used it harmlessly:

The only reality show, I ever, EVER had respect for and still have respect for.

"Mythbusters" 

Sadly, it seems that the extremists in the world have taken this way too seriously as a concept...

And that is the MAIN PROBLEM!

Rejecting reality, leads to pushing the world into becoming a living hell.

Btw, obviously this doesn't need to be said, but I will say it anyways, one good show, from a horrible concept, does not make it right.

Thus, this concept of reality tv, which is really just staged, would have been better off not existing at all.

So many complex things though exist though...

Once a group of people is persecuted enough, people start to align with them more and more as I have said.

It still amazes me though that America is to blind to this and possibly other western countries and especially countries ruled with fascists or worse...

I could go on and on, but suffice to say, its meaningless...  so I will pass for now.

xD

HyperbolaBSD: The Future of Secure Libre Lightweight Operating Systems!

289

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

zapper wrote:

(...)

Also, humans have more intelligence then most animals in nature. Of course we aren't higher beings though, our actions demonstrate that time and time again.

(...)

Either way,  intelligence humans have way more than animals with regard to physical knowledge, as for emotional and mental sanity, that is an entirely different story.

(...)

Other earthlings have even the same amount of possibilities to express emotions as we have. They do that just on other ways. You think that a cow is not mourning when a new-born child is taken away? It is clearly wrong. The first thing is just that we need to recognize for sure reality and that is for sure also hearing out science. Making the difference that we are the "one chosen" is the first problem of many others following. But that is clearly part of all within this thread, all to read. wink

We are within a loophole when always thinking only about manipulation coming up out of some "evil motivation". And please don't make a different between intelligent or non-intelligent beings. That is only your own assumption, you have no approve for that point or for thoughts being done. People believe many things, and for me speaking: I don't follow any religious beliefs. Should I therefore write the same about them? You have not see me writing that. So the minimum is just that and make a difference, because hatred has its roots especially there to come. And people manipulating doing that especially because of beliefs.
One part is for sure the point:

zapper wrote:

"I reject your reality and I substitute my own."

That is meant for what I have written above. It is okay to have multiple explanations for something. But said with: I have no interest to discuss further onto that point for sure. Because: When searching for "manipulation", you will always find approval for something and I could name countless examples about horrible deeds in the name of any kind of religion, especially Christianity. But it is false to make some individual responsible for that: There can be a change for better. Nevertheless it is the clear humanism to be used as first motivation.
Being believable is not in combination with religion or religious beliefs. It is a concept living together within a world of respect, tolerance and empathy. Everybody can and should have an own way to find that, but the base is: It has to be an own decision and not some common decision pressed onto everyone. wink

The "internet" can be good about finding new perspectives and information. It can be also horrible bad because anybody can tell lies and people are willing to approve them because they fit just well enough into a simple explanation. But foremost: There are no simple explanations! We do better within approving scientific facts. Ignorance prevailed only because people don't want to find out what is behind, don't question enough at the correct point and instead further handle only for own interests only, letting so much injustices happen and we are at that point again in history within our human global society. So drawing the lines: There is no difference at all between us earthlings, as we all are living and searching for comfy places and eating rather than discomfort. But it is easy to state that others are not members of the own group, like for other earthlings. It is just that: It all comes down to suffering, not intelligence, not strength, not social class or civil rights. Pain and suffering are in themselves bad and should be prevented or minimized at all cost. Respect the sex or species the being, no way other around. We are all animals of this planet, we are all creatures and non-human animals express emotional happenings the same we do: They too are strong and intelligent, mobile and active. They are capable of growth and adaptation, learning situations. Like us they are earthlings! And I could give the same example about "not members of the own group" for free culture: It has to be inclusive, not exclusive, not with giving so much it won't be affordable for everyone. When people decide to use non-free soft- and hardware, it is their own decision. But we should not run behind or asking for more convinient ways. Just accept that there are others and warn when we see problems, because those are for sure ignored more and more. As said: It is quite so complex, that all is connected and non-free soft- / hardware has therefore influence when people stop favors for freedom and free ways of expressing algorithms. It looks like esoteric, but that's quite simple: We decide on our own, but many decisions also connect more into.

A slight little sidenote for all interested is the documentation Earthlings! Perhaps that would the most reasonable point for us first to recognize: Co-existing is possible and needed more than ever before. We cannot go further from that point with that we have without risking all progress we have made. Democracy is of highest value for that, when we get lost within hatred and harassment, strange beliefs for lies we will loose all. Not at once, but stepwise. And for that we also need speciesism to end for sure. But as noted: It is not up to me for a decision. Everyone decides on own measures. All done and will done is just that: Giving words and discussion. Nothing more with the goal for the so-called second thought for being believable ... but please without any kind of religious background: Own decision, you know ... and the way to use is also own defined. Love for a colorful world, it takes nothing for us humans to grant other earthlings a happy life without suffering and it takes also nothing to be kind but straight. Shortened stories and criticism will never help: Especially when it comes to the fall of democratic values. They fall because enough people listen to simplified stories, lies instead of facts and don't think further. Manipulation starts always with self-manipulating, being taught false points and going for adapted tales instead of points with clear information. Otherwise we would be quite better within the pandemic situation, with support of others and ending the mentioned suffering fast and strict. It is the opposite and besides to accept it, there is no need to do further and speak straight against harassment and hatred, against manipulation including self ones. Just a way of living with inclusion and respect, should take also nothing from us but well: The reality is different here and many people think other way around. We are responsible for the situation, no one else. Everyone has responsibility either the living together is working or is going only about "ruling" and "using power" instead of reflection of own privileges for protecting others - also written within this thread and described. Most is just the own will for a change or also not. We can clear see where this leads to even now with all harsh part to come.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

290 (edited by zapper 2022-08-11 05:13:19)

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

EDIT:  I should have did this in a different order, the love your neighbor as yourself and love God above all else commandment aka what some call

The Golden Rule is the main issue the 2nd problem still is the one I said below:

Truthfully, if there is any problem with Christianity, its that no one follows this specific teaching of Jesus:

Render to Caesar what is Caesar's and God to what is God's

Basically, something that ironically, many nonbelievers want...

Separation of church and state!

As for whether Christianity can be manipulated, pretty sure, any ideas with powerful effects can be manipulated...

I once spoke to someone who said that the most dangerous tools for writing viruses are the ones computers already have built into them, I was using a distro back then and basically mentioned that he could use vim alone, to push malware onto a computer.

Have people used Christianity and religion to manipulate people? Yes, as for why this is, I honestly think it comes down to this:

Humans are very much too impure to really appreciate such a truth.

Thus, it gets abused very easily. Although, the original writers never forced the abortion nonsense that came alot later.

This is why we need the golden rule and yes, I had to be more clear so I needed to EDIT again...

Also, Proverbs alone has a lot of wisdom within it,

Basically, if you treat people poorly, act prideful, or if you prefer arrogantly and if you do foolish stuff, you will have an unhappy end, etc...

Just for an example I thought I should write that...

The problem I find, is the lack of maturity of those who want to represent Christianity, particularly, on the TV and people in promoninent positions, etc...

Also, brainwashing does exist, some consider it a demonic ideal that needs to be dealt with, aka me...

The reason we very often have people who say they are religious doing stuff that is evil, is because the moment you join a religion or Chrisitanity, which I consider different due to the "you cannot make yourself pure ideal"

Simply put, there are two possibilies, one for great good! And one I hate to say for great evil...

Because why wouldn't someone clothed in pure evil ideals like the prince of evil not have the intelligence to know this would scare people from the cause, and make the world get worse...

Yeah... I am sure you disagree as to this, one thing I do agree on you with though, the extremism is a huge prroblem, on the scale of 1-10, I can't even say its 10... I would say it goes beyond 10 at this point due to the danger level, increasing over time.


If you read Ecclesiastes, you would find some thoughts that would be considered very modern even now!

IT is kind of depressing, it basically says there is a time for just about anything, the only two things there is not a time for, is running from your problems or just seeing what you can get away with.

Also, the golden rule that is spoken of by Jesus within the four gospels, basically, it is what you say you want, more or less:

People to be able to love and tolerate each other, in peace and harmony

The problem is mankind itself as I have said.

Besides, if the ideals of christianity was causing problems, the more people lost interest in church, the better the world would get if your viewpoint was correct.

On a slighty less related note, did you get my email today?

Feel free to discuss the above after, but I wondered...

wink

EDIT: It seems no one responded, so yeah... its about a survey regarding RUST programming language, maybe people will actually be willing to get rid of the pointless trademark restrictions, or at least make it so that it can be modified without having to go to insane lengths to change it.

Btw, sorry to have to make so many modifications, hopefully this makes more sense?

Idk... xD

HyperbolaBSD: The Future of Secure Libre Lightweight Operating Systems!

291

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Would you mind to end the discussion in combination with Christianity and Jesus? I have asked kind in the last posting of mine. Now I ask direct. I see no reasoning within as I have said: Everybody has own ways towards being believable and this does not include any kind of religion (for me speaking), it can be a toolset for others but therefore we should not mix and stay onto individual definitions. It is just oriented onto facts and values. Yes, any kind of "belief" can include that also. But the point about: There was so much damage done in the name of "whatever" that I personally don't see any kind of use repeating that over and over. Besides:

zapper wrote:

The Golden Rule is the main issue the 2nd problem still is the one I said below:

Truthfully, if there is any problem with Christianity, its that no one follows this specific teaching of Jesus:

Render to Caesar what is Caesar's and God to what is God's

Basically, something that ironically, many nonbelievers want...

Separation of church and state!

That is one separation after another (meaning exactly "nonbelievers"). The "church" has proven to misuse power in all dimensions given. So it would be just reasonable to separate, what we have done not until today because exactly of a false understanding of tolerance. And therefore we have exactly those problems resulting with extreme radical religious beliefs. So the circle is closing: I see no need to discuss both points exactly out of that reasoning: It is just open there to understand! wink

We can talk about manipulation, about problems with capitalism, about many other points also false promises and more. But any religion is out of context here, because from what I have learned in a lifetime until today it is not helpful for being believable because the phrase is exactly the opposite: Reflect yourself and go into retrospective! If you want to use religious beliefs for that? Feel free. But the points are going right towards how we earthlings exist in peace here in combination with free culture, free information and therefore free, libre soft- / hardware. That's it!

Yes, the problem are we human beings as we can be cruel to everyone, but the point: When one individual recognize that and is able to choose other ways, this means there is also one individual able for a change. We have not enough time from today on doing that, but I hope we can manage to have more people following thoughts for inclusive living and empathy. There is no other choice besides violence and resulting more suffering to come otherwise. We have only this one planet and should handle with care, not with ignorance. Therefore this thread with this thoughts, but please more oriented onto grip for a handle. On the philosophical layer we can discuss uncountable topics, nevertheless: People need at first to question themselves before doing. For now they do the opposite just for their own "ego" or name it otherwise like "only for themself" (same story). Protection of others? Speaking up for others? This would be the point where we need to be. Otherwise our global society is failing on the minimum even! So our own behavior is the problem and the possible solution when change it. And it is not the way to point out that there are some lines for an approval that "Christianity" can be "good" or "helpful". It is an own decision. That is a fact! Believing onto "religion"? Cool, do so when peaceful and open-minded. But that is no plan for others or all earthlings. We need to stop ruining parts we touch for generalizing. Instead we need to respect all earthlings.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

292

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

throgh wrote:

Would you mind to end the discussion in combination with Christianity and Jesus? I have asked kind in the last posting of mine. Now I ask direct. I see no reasoning within as I have said: Everybody has own ways towards being believable and this does not include any kind of religion (for me speaking), it can be a toolset for others but therefore we should not mix and stay onto individual definitions. It is just oriented onto facts and values. Yes, any kind of "belief" can include that also. But the point about: There was so much damage done in the name of "whatever" that I personally don't see any kind of use repeating that over and over. Besides:

zapper wrote:

The Golden Rule is the main issue the 2nd problem still is the one I said below:

Truthfully, if there is any problem with Christianity, its that no one follows this specific teaching of Jesus:

Render to Caesar what is Caesar's and God to what is God's

Basically, something that ironically, many nonbelievers want...

Separation of church and state!

That is one separation after another (meaning exactly "nonbelievers"). The "church" has proven to misuse power in all dimensions given. So it would be just reasonable to separate, what we have done not until today because exactly of a false understanding of tolerance. And therefore we have exactly those problems resulting with extreme radical religious beliefs. So the circle is closing: I see no need to discuss both points exactly out of that reasoning: It is just open there to understand! wink

We can talk about manipulation, about problems with capitalism, about many other points also false promises and more. But any religion is out of context here, because from what I have learned in a lifetime until today it is not helpful for being believable because the phrase is exactly the opposite: Reflect yourself and go into retrospective! If you want to use religious beliefs for that? Feel free. But the points are going right towards how we earthlings exist in peace here in combination with free culture, free information and therefore free, libre soft- / hardware. That's it!

Yes, the problem are we human beings as we can be cruel to everyone, but the point: When one individual recognize that and is able to choose other ways, this means there is also one individual able for a change. We have not enough time from today on doing that, but I hope we can manage to have more people following thoughts for inclusive living and empathy. There is no other choice besides violence and resulting more suffering to come otherwise. We have only this one planet and should handle with care, not with ignorance. Therefore this thread with this thoughts, but please more oriented onto grip for a handle. On the philosophical layer we can discuss uncountable topics, nevertheless: People need at first to question themselves before doing. For now they do the opposite just for their own "ego" or name it otherwise like "only for themself" (same story). Protection of others? Speaking up for others? This would be the point where we need to be. Otherwise our global society is failing on the minimum even! So our own behavior is the problem and the possible solution when change it. And it is not the way to point out that there are some lines for an approval that "Christianity" can be "good" or "helpful". It is an own decision. That is a fact! Believing onto "religion"? Cool, do so when peaceful and open-minded. But that is no plan for others or all earthlings. We need to stop ruining parts we touch for generalizing. Instead we need to respect all earthlings.


Actually, was thinking of doing so since the last time we chatted and also, just also, realizing, that to continue to try to talk to you about anything here, seems to be an act of futility...

I still think some of this more or less, but yeah... sometimes, I forget, that when I talk about this stuff, I end up judging people and when I judge people, I end up, sadly ingraining similar crap into my mind...

I would hope the whole golden rule thing would be one thing everyone could agree on, at least on the human element, but meh... w/e

I give up...

If this is what you believe, your right will be protected and I will only look foolish trying to change your mind.

I might talk with you elsewhere, but the forum? Nah... its pointless.

Besides, these kind of discussions seem to breed negativity in me way too often.

Anywho, wish granted, hopefully?

I will try to stay away from this thread yet again.

wink

HyperbolaBSD: The Future of Secure Libre Lightweight Operating Systems!

293

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

No need to stay away, just not judging at all would be cool enough. We can only give thoughts or recommendations. Rest is up to every individual reader, but also thoughts being in reach for all earthlings, not just some of us. Otherwise we cannot find a base living together and as said: That is needed. Otherwise we humans find easy excuses and use them for sure as some greater "power" made us to do that for example. If you think to change my mind about "religion": No need to as I have already underlined where the point is for me. You can always start with a good motivation, but end up elsewhere. That's the reasoning for me also staying away from other platforms and those many postings giving the recommendation for that. When we would focus more, the way could be better. smile

But as stated: It can be only done as solution for ALL earthlings and that includes all inhabitants of earth, not just humans. We are not better as everyone else, we have just our own ways developed and think this makes us "better". In the end: No, not our intelligence and not anything else makes us better. It could be if we manage to find a way in peace and not with overruling or taking others own responsibility away as even the phrase "evil" is one of that: By definition "evil" cannot handle any other way as it is just one side of another. But it is not my task to convince anyone about that. Yours all to decide, dear readers. A point at the end: A discussion is not there to convince anyone and there I see it not as futility. If you see it that way, also yours to decide as discussions are there to learn thoughts and make lines clear we should never cross. Facts are there to have a common ground and the discussion is there to bring them up. But can I change others thoughts? Not possible. Only others can and when somebody rejects facts about evolution for example I cannot do anything about it. That is one of the lines not to cross: Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices! It stays a warning. Therefore this thread has fulfilled its meaning: I think it is time for an end instead of repeating or ending just somewhere else. Oh and we should for sure cut off the so-called modern internet: A place where beings suffer and marginalized beings and groups are confronted with full hatred. Democracy defending, but for sure with common sense, empathy and solidarity. All described, written and surely discussed in this thread. We have a chance to stop all that, but only without any kind of platforms: No difference between open or closed, nothing at all for "Web 2.0" or "Web whatever following". The web is damaged without giving a sign for free culture.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!