1 Topic by MamãoMutante (edited by MamãoMutante 2022-11-29 17:53:48)

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Topic: Is GNU IceCat dependent on Rust?

When trying to compile and install GNU IceCat from source, the following lines appear:

checking for rustc... not found
checking for cargo... not found
ERROR: Rust compiler not found.
To compile rust language sources, you must have 'rustc' in your path

I have tested this with versions 91.13.0 and 102.5.0 (latest) of IceCat, and both versions forbid me from proceeding with the compilation/installation due to missing Rust stuff.
I am not sure if there is an easy way to circumvent this. I have made a cheesy attempt to compile IceCat without using Rust by trying to delete all the files mentioning Rust from the source code, but this didn't work. As you can see, I am not very experienced in compiling software

Note 1: Didn't post this to the "Packages" section of the forum because there seems to be no IceCat package for Hyperbola
Note 2: I'm not sure if it's even possible to compile IceCat in Hyperbola because the compiling script is meant for Debian-based distros, such as the one I have used for this experiment. However, since this situation involves Rust, I still feel like it's relevant for the Hyperbola community and for other people trying to avoid Mozilla trademark restrictions. I am unable to attempt this experiment on Hyperbola as my current laptop is not compatible with FSF-endorsed distros.
Note 3: Even if GNU IceCat was compatible with Hyperbola and didn't need Rust packages in order to compile, Hyperbola's desire to not become dependent on unreliable upstreams might make GNU IceCat unsuitable for Hyperbola as it is based on the very questionable Mozilla Firefox. (I am aware that iceweasel-uxp was developed for a reason)

2 Reply by throgh

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Re: Is GNU IceCat dependent on Rust?

Hyperbola is not supporting Rust in any way!
Please read here therefore in the wiki: https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id … _trademark

So that's for the common intro for people asking and reading here without forum-interaction. Not related to you for sure, but I want to give the information nevertheless. The codebase for GNU IceCat is more or less comparable also towards Abrowser and both are using Rust for sure, including cargo for creating the used container-environment. GNU IceCat is more or less just Mozilla Firefox with at least some removed parts, but not all. Look here for more insight: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/gnuzi … d57bf5a6f1

That's also the reasoning for us to state that the GNU-project (including the FSF) are not oriented on the original statement: They just have adapted towards some projects, removing parts. It is for sure not bad per definition, but the question: How long until the problems in the dependency-tree gets a big loophole? How long until Linux (as kernel) is no longer possible to provide a base for GNU/Linux-libre? There are part more questions like those I have noted and that's the reasoning Hyperbola being that strict and straight forward onto principles and values. smile

Mozilla Firefox needs for sure more than only Rust / Cargo itself and it as you have noted not only an issue for free software, it is completely unreliable as base.

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3 Reply by MamãoMutante

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Re: Is GNU IceCat dependent on Rust?

Alright, thank you!! I will try to rely on browsers that are more independent

4 Reply by throgh

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Re: Is GNU IceCat dependent on Rust?

There are some for sure. Some to list, but not for sure all:

Bad Wolf (webkitgtk)
Midori (webkitgtk, please be aware that Midori wants to change its base also in time)
Otter Browser (webkitgtk)

All of the named browsers are included in Hyperbola for a nice tryout. wink

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

5 Reply by schilling.klaus

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Re: Is GNU IceCat dependent on Rust?

The new Midori will still be based on webkitgtk but implemented in vala,  a language centred on gobjects.

Otter uses Qt stuff (qt-webkit or webengine), not webkitgtk. Installing it on OpenBSD or NetBSD pulls in ugly dependences like Pulseaudio, Avahi, Polkit.

6 Reply by throgh

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Re: Is GNU IceCat dependent on Rust?

Thanks for addition and correction. smile
But you can build the mentioned browser without those components under GNU/Linux. If there is no possible way around pulseaudio under BSD we would need to remove it. The others (avahi and polkit) are full removed already here.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

7 Reply by zapper

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Re: Is GNU IceCat dependent on Rust?

@throgh @schilling.klaus

The rust issue isn't even the only one either...
If you look at the requirements on firefox's own website, it seems they are now requiring, wayland, which makes zero sense, no matter what...
Also, even if for some reason we could magically use a converter to make rust code become python code, etc...
To say it is bloated, is the tip of the iceberg. Also, the webextensions issues are probably massive.

As for badwolf, the only thing I wish, is they would build ublock origin like functionality and something like noscript, only 1000x better functionality wise.

Not so simple though... btw, funny thing, glibc and dbus are problematic issues, that get in the way of using librewolf appimages. last I checked anyhow... but appimages could in itself be a bad idea.

sad

The long and short is, this situation won't go away easily. So be aware of this, just in case.

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8 Reply by throgh

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Re: Is GNU IceCat dependent on Rust?

It seems Mozilla has implemented some support for screensharing under wayland. Nevertheless there is even more with wasi being essential for building.

https://github.com/WebAssembly/wasi-libc

This is going huge and takes even more dependencies from release to release. Every new dependency is in theory a new security-vector causing some further issues and especially web-components relying onto remote resources are the full guarantee for that scenario. This was also the reasoning for us to remove those kind of packages, even with smaller dependency-trees. Independent systems are way better and full of possibilities for users.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

9 Reply by anthk

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Re: Is GNU IceCat dependent on Rust?

throgh wrote:

It seems Mozilla has implemented some support for screensharing under wayland. Nevertheless there is even more with wasi being essential for building.

https://github.com/WebAssembly/wasi-libc

This is going huge and takes even more dependencies from release to release. Every new dependency is in theory a new security-vector causing some further issues and especially web-components relying onto remote resources are the full guarantee for that scenario. This was also the reasoning for us to remove those kind of packages, even with smaller dependency-trees. Independent systems are way better and full of possibilities for users.

Long ago there was video support in Netsurf with GSTreamer support, but now it doesn't work any more. If anyone wants to fix that...

https://github.com/netsurf-browser/nets … e.defaults

10 Reply by zapper (edited by zapper 2022-12-12 01:10:43)

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Re: Is GNU IceCat dependent on Rust?

anthk wrote:
throgh wrote:

It seems Mozilla has implemented some support for screensharing under wayland. Nevertheless there is even more with wasi being essential for building.

https://github.com/WebAssembly/wasi-libc

This is going huge and takes even more dependencies from release to release. Every new dependency is in theory a new security-vector causing some further issues and especially web-components relying onto remote resources are the full guarantee for that scenario. This was also the reasoning for us to remove those kind of packages, even with smaller dependency-trees. Independent systems are way better and full of possibilities for users.

Long ago there was video support in Netsurf with GSTreamer support, but now it doesn't work any more. If anyone wants to fix that...

https://github.com/netsurf-browser/nets … e.defaults

Actually, it is usable in badwolf, gst-libav is required and the other usual ones. I don't think any other requirements exist, as of now.

EDIT:

Btw, pretty sure mozilla would be willing to drop xorg, which is bad...

For Wayland, which is an ultra abomination... its absolutely a mess.

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