1 Topic by MamãoMutante (edited by MamãoMutante 2023-07-19 23:18:40)

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Topic: Question regarding devices with a mitigated Intel ME

Now, while my goal was to find a device with no Intel ME at all, these are too expensive to import to Brazil (in the case of the librebooted x200) or hard to find (in the case of the librebooted x60, which I wasn't able to find in any freedom-friendly store; the only search engines I use are wiby and alexandria.org so perhaps one who uses different search engines may have better luck than I did).
Since laptops with no ME at all don't seem to be an option for me, I was wondering if something like a librebooted x230 might be a good option, since, while it does have an Intel ME, it is so, so truncated to the point where people will consider such laptop secure and freedom-friendly. So, are x230ies and the like a safe and ethical choice for a librebooted laptop?

2 Reply by throgh

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Re: Question regarding devices with a mitigated Intel ME

As Libreboot is nowadays only another foul compromise I would recommend you to search on second-hand platforms likewise ebay for example, especially for ThinkPad X60, X60s and T60 as those can be flashed internal. The reasoning for me stating that Libreboot is doing wrong: There is no further reason to use newer releases instead of Coreboot direct. And pre-flashed devices are very expensive for better done on own ways.

It is not that complicated to learn how to flash and where to look for problems. smile

So the perspective from me is: Using the older release from Libreboot (2016) before the project was completely reformed into what it is now for device mentioned within this posting. Using Coreboot for the rest. There is no difference between the Libreboot nowadays and Coreboot aside you would need to look very careful into as Libreboot for devices like ThinkPad X220, X230 and others needs same non-free firmware-blobs but does not distribute any of them. And you would need then to do the exact same as with Coreboot itself. No difference in the outcome! Free as in freedom? Yes, as far possible with Coreboot. But Libreboot? Foul compromise, just done to have more modern machines into that project.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

3 Reply by zapper

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Re: Question regarding devices with a mitigated Intel ME

MamãoMutante wrote:

Now, while my goal was to find a device with no Intel ME at all, these are too expensive to import to Brazil (in the case of the librebooted x200) or hard to find (in the case of the librebooted x60, which I wasn't able to find in any freedom-friendly store; the only search engines I use are wiby and alexandria.org so perhaps one who uses different search engines may have better luck than I did).
Since laptops with no ME at all don't seem to be an option for me, I was wondering if something like a librebooted x230 might be a good option, since, while it does have an Intel ME, it is so, so truncated to the point where people will consider such laptop secure and freedom-friendly. So, are x230ies and the like a safe and ethical choice for a librebooted laptop?

What is your perspective of freedom? If its very ideologist, to the point where intel me being disabled is not enough, then modern hardware is to be avoided beyond the X200.

However, if your idea of freedom is your not having your privacy invaded, then intel me disabled + coreboot is a good way to go.

HyperbolaBSD: The Future of Secure Libre Lightweight Operating Systems!

4 Reply by MamãoMutante

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Re: Question regarding devices with a mitigated Intel ME

I've followed throgh's advice of searching on a second-hand platform and this was quite fruitful: not only did I find laptops that are a lot cheaper than what I would have been able to find otherwise, but I also found cheap laptops where the Intel ME can be disabled entirely and where a fully free BIOS-replacement can be flashed internally (the T60 and Dell Latitute E6400). I think I will get one of these, though I may (or may not) need to replace the WiFi chipset.

It's not all flowers though; by buying from a big second-hand platform instead of a pro-free-software place me and my father are having to deal with stuff such as ReCaptchas (unfortunately I answered one of those out of impulse and now that I think about it I probably didn't have to, sorry for that). Plus I would rather financially support ethically-oriented libre-friendly stores rather than deal with big questionable platforms, but I guess I wasn't able to have everything my way this time.

Thank you two!

5 Reply by throgh

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Re: Question regarding devices with a mitigated Intel ME

You won't be left alone with flashing: I think questions can be answered here, same for guidance. You have said your dad and you? Oh please keep especially this highest: It is much fun and interesting as I have done so many "flashing"-sessions with my dad same. Besides for sure he is sometimes giving a big sigh and is right about: Using external flashing is not the finest when using the clips. So be careful when you like doing this in the future for sure. Not that it is not possible, but when you plan doing that direct on the board you will need to have a calm hand and several tryouts before the clip is having a stable connection - that is what my dad always criticize sidewise he has much interest same on having free hardware. smile

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

6 Reply by MamãoMutante

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Re: Question regarding devices with a mitigated Intel ME

Thank you for the positivity

7 Reply by MamãoMutante

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Re: Question regarding devices with a mitigated Intel ME

By the way, if anyone reading wants to know which second-hand platform me and dad are using: it's Mercado Livre, from South America (I believe it's from Argentina). I'm not recommending it though, it's simply the platform my dad is familiar with. Be careful when venturing down there, and I also advice reading the TOS and, if you care, checking if the javascript is libre (free as in freedom).

8 Reply by zapper

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Re: Question regarding devices with a mitigated Intel ME

Pretty sure javascript is a problem even when its libre. Javascript isn't exactly known for its security... quite the opposite.

HyperbolaBSD: The Future of Secure Libre Lightweight Operating Systems!

9 Reply by MamãoMutante

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Re: Question regarding devices with a mitigated Intel ME

I am aware of the concerns surrounding javascript; I am very careful about it and generally leave it disabled, though it's not just for security, I also want to support lightweight and portable solutions (this means sites that can be reliably used without javascript even in small browsers. I generally have a better time when the site I'm visiting relies only on html and not javascript)