26

Re: Unneeded discussions regarding Hyperbola

It seems some people deny really to read clear so here is a bit help: CC-BY-SA-3.0 is an unproblematic license and free, permissive. Just look here. To quote:

Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format for any purpose, even commercially.
  Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material for any purpose, even commercially.
  The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the license terms.

Perhaps some people in some forums outside for some systems should really stop claiming some information without reading the basics. You can always modify the data and share it, when you respect the original license and the people created the data. It is really not that complicated, just that some people seem to have an interest to follow strict what the FSF is naming without questioning the reasons - resulting in ignorance.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

27

Re: Unneeded discussions regarding Hyperbola

throgh wrote:

It seems some people deny really to read clear so here is a bit help: CC-BY-SA-3.0 is an unproblematic license and free, permissive. Just look here. To quote:

Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format for any purpose, even commercially.
  Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material for any purpose, even commercially.
  The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the license terms.

Perhaps some people in some forums outside for some systems should really stop claiming some information without reading the basics. You can always modify the data and share it, when you respect the original license and the people created the data. It is really not that complicated, just that some people seem to have an interest to follow strict what the FSF is naming without questioning the reasons - resulting in ignorance.

The
license in
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by … galcode.en

even shows in

4. Restrictions.

b. You may Distribute or Publicly Perform an Adaptation only under: (i) the terms of this License; (ii) a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License; (iii) a Creative Commons jurisdiction license (either this or a later license version) that contains the same License Elements as this License (e.g., Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported) ("Applicable License"). You must include a copy of, or the URI, for Applicable License with every copy of each Adaptation You Distribute or Publicly Perform. You may not offer or impose any terms on the Adaptation that restrict the terms of the Applicable License or the ability of the recipient of the Adaptation to exercise the rights granted to that recipient under the terms of the Applicable License. You must keep intact all notices that refer to the Applicable License and to the disclaimer of warranties with every copy of the Work as included in the Adaptation You Distribute or Publicly Perform. When You Distribute or Publicly Perform the Adaptation, You may not impose any effective technological measures on the Adaptation that restrict the ability of a recipient of the Adaptation from You to exercise the rights granted to that recipient under the terms of the Applicable License. This Section 4(b) , applies to the Adaptation as incorporated in a Collection, but this does not require the Collection apart from the Adaptation itself to be made subject to the terms of the Applicable License.

so with

(ii) a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License;

I think this may be one-way compatible with later CC-BY-SA licenses.

https://creativecommons.org/share-your- … -licenses/

even shows

Version 3.0

Your contributions to adaptations of BY-SA 3.0 materials may only be licensed under:

    BY-SA 3.0, or a later version of the BY-SA license.
    Ported versions of the BY-SA license, version 3.0 or later.
    A license designated as a “Creative Commons Compatible License” as defined in BY-SA 3.0.

Currently, no non-CC licenses have been designated as compatible with BY-SA 3.0. Other licenses may be added to this list at any time according to the established process and criteria. Once a license has been added to this list, it will not be removed.

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#which-cc

shows

Creative Commons Attribution-Sharealike 4.0 license (a.k.a. CC BY-SA) (#ccbysa)

    This is a copyleft free license that is good for artistic and entertainment works, and educational works. Like all CC licenses, it should not be used on software.

    CC BY-SA 4.0 is one-way compatible with the GNU GPL version 3: this means you may license your modified versions of CC BY-SA 4.0 materials under GNU GPL version 3, but you may not relicense GPL 3 licensed works under CC BY-SA 4.0.

    Because Creative Commons lists only version 3 of the GNU GPL on its compatible licenses list, it means that you can not license your adapted CC BY-SA works under the terms of “GNU GPL version 3, or (at your option) any later version.” However, Section 14 of the GNU GPL version 3 allows licensors to specify a proxy to determine whether future versions of the GNU GPL can be used. Therefore, if someone adapts a CC BY-SA 4.0 work and incorporates it into a GNU GPL version 3 licensed project, they can specify Creative Commons as their proxy (via https://creativecommons.org/share-your- … licenses/) so that if and when Creative Commons determines that a future version of the GNU GPL is a compatible license, the adapted and combined work could be used under that later version of the GNU GPL.

    Please be specific about which Creative Commons license is being used.

So CC-BY-SA 3.0 may even be one-way compatible with CC-BY-SA 4.0 that is one-way compatible with the GNU GPL version 3, though it may not work as well with software.

https://creativecommons.org/faq/#can-i- … o-software

shows in part

Version 4.0 of CC’s Attribution-ShareAlike (BY-SA) license is one-way compatible with the GNU General Public License version 3.0 (GPLv3). This compatibility mechanism is designed for situations in which content is integrated into software code in a way that makes it difficult or impossible to distinguish the two. There are special considerations required before using this compatibility mechanism. Read more about it here.

Here is

https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/S … ity:_GPLv3

There may be some considerations, if you update things under these, but I think CC-BY-SA 3.0 and CC-BY-SA 4.0 both look like unproblematic, freedom supporting licenses.

I'm not a lawyer, though even if you do not distribute things that are under CC-BY-SA 3.0, you can still use them very freely.

And these also can also be distributed, modified or modified and distributed under the terms of the license without many restrictions, without you getting sued, I think.

I do not know what "the FSF is naming" or who may be typing about this, though you may likely also explain why you think CC-BY-SA 3.0 may be a problem for you. All 3 of these do not look like a problem to me or for me.

https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id … l_contract

In part shows

Our community is built on constructive discourse and netiquette.

So if anyone does find something that is thought to be a problem in a license you can politely tell others why you think it is a problem. If what you say sounds rude to others, those people may be less likely to think it is constructive discourse, so it could help you if what you type is typed in a polite way.

28

Re: Unneeded discussions regarding Hyperbola

Well, time to quote another commentary done a few days ago. No, not mentioning the source, it is more important what is standing there instead who is saying this:

At times like this we understand and feel for the Hyperbola team attempting to move to OpenBSD (or was it FreeBSD or NetBSD??) and away from Linux, but as you can see part of the disease is transferring to anything craving Graphical User Interface "apps"

Okay, first things first: We are NOT ATTEMPTING to move to OpenBSD. To repeat: Hyperbola IS NOT moving anywhere. We are developing a complete operating-system and BSD-descendant. We are using OpenBSD-parts as base, yes. But that's it. There is no "migration" going on or likewise we are exchanging just some parts. Again: HyperbolaBSD is a BSD-descendaten operating-system, complete in all parts. It has an own kernel and an own userspace. It is NOT NetBSD alone, it is NOT FreeBSD alone and likewise also NOT OpenBSD alone.

Second point: Yes, we are going away from GNU/Linux. But we have communicated that often and repeat it again: HyperbolaBSD is a free, libre operating-system. We plan two repositories for HyperbolaBSD and want to use hyperman as forked pacman for our package-management. So Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre is our transition-base. What we do NOW is what we will do NEXT also. Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre is planned to represent the base in extra also. I repeat again:

core -> changing to full BSD-sphere, including basic userspace, tools, kernel and drivers
extra -> what we have now and making more and more fitting, including also GNU-packages

Third and last: The quote is representing the on-going rejection of reality. So to repeat this again: It is an illusion to think the on-going transfer and rework of free, libre software can anywhere be stopped. No, this is not possible. But what we can do is find a niche, develop independent and follow an ideal. We can also stop and freeze single packages in concrete versions, we can fork them within a bigger focus and community. In short: We can do all of that, when we leave those enforced dependencies behind us. And that is Hyperbola as it meant to be. It is not just "OpenBSD with GNU-parts". smile

And also as answer to up above, Other_Cody: We are telling friendly every misunderstanding when it gets here or we get a chance like now writing about. It is just that we cannot tell others posting elsewhere, because we have surely not the whole time to search the global network for misunderstandings and we also do not see it as our responsibility to inform others constant. If there are questions: Why not asking them here and clear up? Exactly that's the point of this thread. It would also result within a misconception if we would run behind others to correct and get into touch: Part of emancipation is also to acknowledge that everyone is responsible to ask and read, not others to carry information behind.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

29

Re: Unneeded discussions regarding Hyperbola

Hard forking OpenBSD means going in a different direction but possibly keeping some similar ideals but going further or further away as far as I know.

So i don't think there should be confusion.

Security part of OpenBSD, yes
Stability part? Even more yes
Minimalistic? Probably less in some cases.

This is my understanding though.

HyperbolaBSD: The Future of Secure Libre Lightweight Operating Systems!

30

Re: Unneeded discussions regarding Hyperbola

All correct. smile But people nevertheless get perhaps a bit confused when we mention bmake from FreeBSD for example. Yes, this was and is used but as said: HyperbolaBSD is already now going on own way. Seems the common way is to see "fork" as nevertheless to just exchange some basics or keep nevertheless the contact to the original project working. The exact description as hard fork is not used foremost. Thanks for the clear wording, zapper. smile

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

31

Re: Unneeded discussions regarding Hyperbola

It seems we need to keep this thread open as chance and opportunity to react on accusations from outside. So this time again from another forum. As always I do not mention anything else except the written postings as quotes within here. It is this time also very personal as I was attacked also direct. But more to come later in this posting and reaction. First things first one happening and one time to say: That thread I react on is done by the former community-member "jim" here at Hyperbola. I have banned and excluded him out of the reasoning that he never really wanted to read what was written, he attacked our community several times without any need to do and also did unfair criticism towards other members. So to describe the wideout grounds on this is happening as the thread starts with "Is Hyperbola usable?" as subject.

So than personal as I have never gotten any possibility to register and attend in this discussion elsewhere: jim, you have gotten support. Multiple times.I name now examples:

https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?id=1058
https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?id=1043
https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?id=967

I have also provided several times tutorials on how to build packages and even build a package especially on your wish, providing the source-material here: https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic … 8042#p8042

Stating the following in quote:

[NAME] ,i think this is impossible, since the forum administrator would ban [NAME] for his opinion if he wrote the same thing there))

There is only the opinion of one person (throgh) which cannot be disputed and even Richard Stallman has no right to do so
https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?id=521
No support and if the free, libre software is only possible with this person

This is beyond anything as you misuse an old thread (which was therefore also deleted), take this in a complete different context and try to underline your "ad hominem"-argumentation. Your only point is and was to attack me in person, while all your accusations are not even near the reality. You were told several times that you can get help, when you also follow the written instructions. Demanding to build packages on command? Not working. And only to hide behind the phrase "I'm only a user" is also not working: You had always the chance to read the wiki and understand what kind of system Hyperbola is and that we follow the maxime do it yourself. You were also told several times that if you have no interest doing so, compile and package on your own, you should perhaps search for a different system and project fitting your needs. There are for sure more systems and nobody is enforced to use Hyperbola. But when wanted, you should also make yourself firm with the used philosophy of Hyperbola. We are not going to change the direction of our system-project just because people demand being near to GNU/Linux. I underline again one last time here: Hyperbola is NOT GNU/Linux alone and is onwards to a free, libre BSD-descendant operating-system. Also: Hyperbola is NOT a clone, NOT a snapshot, NOT another copy of whatever. Even now we build ALL our packages from scratch. We just use pacman (for 0.4.5 it will be hyperman) and patchsets from Debian. It is not that complicated except people do not want to read and understand what we write.

And this brings me to the second part of this thread elsewhere beyond vengeance and revenge (as that is the spirit in what jim handels, hiding this behind the wordin "dissatisfaction"): We have again the criticism that we redefine "free and libre" and use it wrong. To quote:

(...)

The Hyperbola project is of course entitled to its own restricted selection of programs. Nevertheless, in my humble opinion, claiming the rejected programs raise freedom issues when they do not (by the standards of the FSF), makes much confusion, which is detrimental to the free software movement.

Those are harsh accusations as we take surely the definitions serious. But we go also beyond and state that for us as system-project some packages and software raise freedom-issues. This includes only us, no other system and we have no real issue if others see this different.

It is important to know that Hyperbola's developers tend to claim that any program they dislike is not free.

We do not "dislike" those programs, we just see issues for our definition. Therefore we take our individual right and not distribute the packages. Furthermore we have enhanced the following wiki-articles once again on behalf of the criticism:

https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id … y_software
https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id … e_packages

But it seems this is never enough as also again we are indirect attacked for our criticism towards Rust, PHP and Java:

The same holds for the whole programming languages Hyperbola rejects (along with the programs using them, I assume):

    https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/PHP
    https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Rust
    https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/OpenJDK

Also:

Only on https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic … 6&p=17 (the last of 17 pages about "the roadmap after 0.4"), one can read that Subversion and Apache "are NOT free and libre" (the emphasis is throgh's), that "Apache-projects and the combined trademark-guidelines endanger free, libre principles", that "FSF is failing again its position as role-model given to show that there is not just only the license but also a social responsibility" because it endorses the WebM and VP8 formats, that any AV1 codec, including dav1d in VLC, "is not free and freedom itself", that with "so-called 'free alternatives' (Mastodon, PeerTube, Diaspora, Hubzilla etc.) [y]ou are all implementing illusions", that OpenArena "is not fully free and libre oriented", etc.

As reaction we have also closed and moved the thread quoted. Especially this last quote shows a dishonest act, as the original text is quite different with a complete different context. To quote this:

throgh wrote:

A comment on the AV1-situation and the codec itself: The "Alliance for Open Media" is using claims such as "open, royalty-free video coding format" but in fact there are clear patents and trademarks behind this codec. Also when looking at the founding members as listing: Amazon, Cisco, Google, Intel, Microsoft, Mozilla, Netflix

This is NOT a community-driven project. This is an industry consortium. We at Hyperbola deny distributing software driven only by industry-interests. We want community-oriented software and projects. This means by people for people. Not by company to customers. We are not customers, treated just as in being a contract at best or even more worse without having any further right granted. Here is clearly to see that companies and corporations do not allow another relation and also do not see more above their ignorance. Therefore we won't distribute aom or also dav1d. The reasoning for dav1d is exactly the same even when coming from the VLC-project: It is trademarked software and trademarks can risk freedom in advance.

And it is an illusion to think that distributing such software-packages will help anyone. This makes people depending on such codecs and those are also enforced on hard- and software on-going. So the question is really: Are we free to do and modify? Or are we just distributing industry-packages? Hyperbola is not and will not follow this path. We reduce the packages offered and remove out of reasoning. We do not maintain industry-packages offered by ignorance and arrogance in the thought that a generic lie for granted license is enough. Remember: This can always be revoked. The companies have concluded that "streaming" is the "next big thing" and therefore they have done steps into this direction. And now they present so-called "gifted software" as grant for free and libre software. Should we be that ignorant to accept those? The answer is here exactly: NO. There is no need for "streaming" but instead to have a secure system playing local videos.

You want to be free as in freedom? Meaning not driven by callout from others? Well, then there is a decision to make. In the end companies like Amazon, Apple, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Cisco and many others have learned how to drop packages as so-called "open-source" but in fact have their patents and trademarks now protected through a wide group of people working for their projects without demanding anything and getting in return to be treated like a "customer" having a license-contract. That is not free and freedom itself is also bringing responsibility as we have written in another corresponding article.

And:

throgh wrote:

You may ask as user: Hey and why did you added all those packages before when you remove them now? Easy to say: We wanted to reach first a status quo for release 0.4 to have the possible stable point. From there we have reduced and optimized further. Also we needed to learn more about the essential issues as we also thought the same as many others before that there are some packages and projects with issues. But the amount of issues we have seen since then was more than "just some projects".

So we need to review on-going which package we absolutely want and need and which ones we can clear remove or even need to blacklist. Remember here that Hyperbola is since version 0.4 build from scratch with all own packages and even an own packaging format in usage. We will have another fresh release with version 0.4.5 coming, where we have reduced another big amount and optimized many known packages further so they run even better with reduced issues and vectors to attack. Yes, this means also that there are many options like "streaming video / audio" is no longer available. But to be honest: A local secure system in the hand of its users is what we want. Not the opposite!

Sorry for the people in favor with the "next big online thing". But we here at Hyperbola do not see the need with more and more online-services to share even the smallest details with an unknown mass of people. That's exactly the point bringing our global society out of balancing. Everybody has a different understand what humor could be and what is a joke and what not. Everybody has an own border what is okay and what not. Bringing really every detail and having all people filling their time with nonsense meme-imagery, with even more attention-search is not the way we reach a better understanding for each other. Hyperbola is not supporting such movement as operating-system and project. We will not provide further integration of web-services. If this is the will of the individual user? Sure thing, do whatever suits you. But we only bring a basic operating-system, surely with all things needed for a local usage. But not more!

From our perspective the whole part of free and non-free JavaScript is NOT working. Yes, non-free JavaScript is same way absolutely not working and okay. But right away trying to overcome non-free JavaScript in non-free platforms sharing non-free data with some alike "free and open implementation" is not working either. That project would afford always being on-pair with the non-free platform and changing at any time possible new API-calls, possible new additions or restrictions to overcome. That cannot be the task for free, libre software. It is quite more honest to accept that this platform is then not possible to use, same as so-called "free alternatives" (Mastodon, PeerTube, Diaspora, Hubzilla etc.): You are all implementing illusions with a big amount of JavaScript. Aside from the technical issues named we have also social implications as no platform has brought people more together, only more marketing-interests and wannabe communication. It is more open to have a specialized forum and smaller communities.

Hyperbola has not only the technical definition, it uses also the social aspect for freedom. And the mentioned issues relies beyond the pure technical aspects. But this all does not really count as Hyperbola is not fitting nevertheless and our system-project in its current phase is also not getting a welcome as it seems. We have tried to get in touch with the people for days now. We wanted to take a stance for sure and defend our position, even knowing that the best situation and outcome would be an "agree to disagree". But this would be enough for us.

As result of this all now this statement as we dislike this unneeded drama-making, we dislike also that no one is getting in touch with us so we get a chance for a talk. Also the FSF ignored this now and no one reacted further. So we close this now on our side with this posting, stating: Dear people elsewhere, you are reacting to a person only searching for revenge, using lies and dishonest claims. A person not willing to learn, just to enforce others on will, to demand and claim, not to give. And beyond that the given criticism was heard from us: We do not have any interest to read accusations elsewhere without given any chance to react or getting in touch. This is the last time as out of this we will no longer give longer explanations why we remove packages or rework them. We will just do as this is free, libre software alike Hyperbola is also. So? If you are not okay with what we do, fork and do it your own. And one last time: We do not do finger-pointing to our forums, seems others have a slight different perspective on that and no problem doing that bringing us here into explanations and distraction from our time and planned roadmap. Thanks for doing so, but this is not the first time for such dishonest accusations and it will be for sure not the last time.

The FSF has its directory even now full with not complete free oriented software. One example? VDrift is using clear copyright-material as the logos from "Coca-Cola" and "Pirelli". We doubt that they are allowed to use those logos and even doing so: There are enough examples with neverball and supertuxkart were even less strict data without clear licensing causes much more problems. But for the FSF this seems to be not really an issue. Okay for them, not okay for us as we use more strict rules. Makes us handle even more correct? No, we do not see us on higher steps and whatever kind of handle. But we just see issues. And using the links as approval that we only "dislike" software is not working. Should we ignore the issues just because the FSF is stating so? No, we don't. Before people now claim we should note the FSF: We have done, please look on the ticket-id #2005329 for VDrift. And we do no longer run behind waiting endless same as we do not run behind other forums. We were the ones being attacked, I was the one being accused and attacked. Fair would have been to discuss with us, instead just to do finger-pointing. And for sure: People may "ignore" trademarks. Point being is: The companies having those trademarks just do not ignore the people wanting to ignore their trademarks. Funny? No, reality. And ignoring the reality may work out for a given timespan, as long as the companies grant the usage of trademarks. What happens when this is not happening any longer? Likewise GNU/Linux had this situation before and when taking that serious and strict again, we never left those fields. We only had an agreement for a price. And when Hyperbola for example is not willing to do so? We should be ashamed we are not following? Oh yes, we could try to behave like copying a damaged concept (social platforms) and implement the same broken concept in free, libre licensed code work out. We could also try to behave like ignoring trademarks and severe copyright-violations is not of any issue or using non-free data and only free, libre licensed code counts. Does this change the issues we name? No. See that's the point: Hyperbola is opposing this and does not accept that. Only we do so does not mean you (whoever meant like anyone) are not allowed to do so. Please do, please ignore. But is just that: We do not want to ignore that issues.

But on the final point: To accuse us doing active harm to the free software movement in this is beyond being okay. A diverse landscape within the free software should be of no issue at all. Demanding from all to run in exact only one pre-defined direction without any kind of retrospective, without any kind of discussion or thoughts about other solutions is what? Yes, it is just running behind without given the right of questioning. And that is not acceptable. So either we are okay with "agree on disagree" and keep a status quo, or we discuss this and come to another comparable conclusion. But to accuse this project and me also personal in such ways is not helping anyone. And jim? Thanks for all the flowers you have made now here and in the other forum. It was and is reasonable to point you to the EXIT-door, because you have showed exactly that you are not willing to understand or in fact take points into your perspective. Last but not least, jim: Even Mr. Stallman may have points where he ignores or have flaws in his perspective. Respect and accept that we all have those, and begin to learn from those. Would be good! Personal I wish you all the best, yes no sarcasm after all: Please find a system suiting your demands, but Hyperbola is obviously not fitting your perspective.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

32

Re: Unneeded discussions regarding Hyperbola

I do not understand the (very common) attitude at free-software community of being destructive (*). I do care about trademarks and freedom behind technical specifications: that is fine. I find myself comfortable at Hyperbola. Other people have other interests or points of view about trademarks or whatever: also fine. I am sure they could find a project well fitting to them. There should not be any problem, but unfortunately it is a massive problem because forums are full of this ridiculous discussions: what is the point of commenting here and there that a project with this or that goal is fully wrong? This is an unnecessary waste of energy.
Whatever, I just hope everyone found a project suitable to their personal values, and I hope Hyperbola can focus on achieving its important goals.

(*) this is just a way or writing, in fact it is well documented in textbooks.

33

Re: Unneeded discussions regarding Hyperbola

Absolutely brought to the point, bemc. We also do not understand what is wrong with a diverse landscape, but it seems some people only want this one way, have an issue with missing packages and dislike building them for their own purpose or sharing further packaging-scripts for the community to act on or using. Exactly that is what frustrates me most: We do not need those discussions as they are waste of time. This reaction above is only a commentary because I did not even get any chance to register and answer direct. So we close this one with the answer and your answer is a absolute perfect description and addition. Thanks!

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

34

Re: Unneeded discussions regarding Hyperbola

bemc wrote:

I do not understand the (very common) attitude at free-software community of being destructive (*). I do care about trademarks and freedom behind technical specifications: that is fine. I find myself comfortable at Hyperbola. Other people have other interests or points of view about trademarks or whatever: also fine. I am sure they could find a project well fitting to them. There should not be any problem, but unfortunately it is a massive problem because forums are full of this ridiculous discussions: what is the point of commenting here and there that a project with this or that goal is fully wrong? This is an unnecessary waste of energy.
Whatever, I just hope everyone found a project suitable to their personal values, and I hope Hyperbola can focus on achieving its important goals.

(*) this is just a way or writing, in fact it is well documented in textbooks.

throgh wrote:

Absolutely brought to the point, bemc. We also do not understand what is wrong with a diverse landscape, but it seems some people only want this one way, have an issue with missing packages and dislike building them for their own purpose or sharing further packaging-scripts for the community to act on or using. Exactly that is what frustrates me most: We do not need those discussions as they are waste of time. This reaction above is only a commentary because I did not even get any chance to register and answer direct. So we close this one with the answer and your answer is a absolute perfect description and addition. Thanks!

I did not see a "jim" at
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/hyperbol … use-distro

the topic

Hyperbola, is it possible to use this distro?

I think that topic was started by someone called sam-d16.

The post started with a question

I was wondering if there are BSD systems with a libre kernel?

but it than took an odd turn with other discussions about Hyperbola policy.
I think Hyperbola works well, and I like how the main developers check packages, and Hyperbola's policy about packages.

I also hope everyone can find/make the software that work well for them.

I also think the above post

https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic … 8146#p8146

likely showed Hyperbola's policies well, and I see if may be hard to register an account there, as well as doing all the other things you do.

https://trisquel.info/en/user/register

As working on Hyperbola, and Hyperbola's forum, it may be hard to also type there more information (again and again it seems) about trademarks and other things. (and any other place this may also come up at)

So I see the best way to find out about Hyperbola's policies may be to just look at Hyperbola's website and read the full articles about what was typed.

throgh wrote:

Can we please immediately stop the on-going license-debate? See before I show another link: We have researched what is possible and bringing those discussions here is never intended. At most it distracts also more as we have neither the time nor further interest to debate this endless.

About that, all is written in the Rust-article: https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id … _trademark

Also: Please understand, Hyperbola is very small and we have neither the time not the resources to debate like perhaps Trisquel and some users do. We have no interests doing that here as this keeps us busy and distracted from our original intention.

Okay, adding: Yes, when the license has severe issues like Rusts? Absolutely and we need also help with research on license-issues. Like you stated for OpenTTD. wink So interest sure, but not those long discussions with an open ending. I know that debate very well now for days as I read there daily and try to get information sorted so we can look on failures ... or optimize our information in the wiki. Because, well? You see it perhaps: No one is speaking with us direct. Only those threads and therefore I personal but also the others are not that amused all-time. wink That's beside not your fault!

https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic … 7412#p7412

At most it distracts also more as we have neither the time nor further interest to debate this endless.

Yes. I remember when I typed about the Rust tradmark at

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/rust-fla … dy-told-me

It seems these discussions regarding Hyperbola or other things are like just long disputations with no end it sight.

And I think this type of debate/discussion may not be helping anyone.

Though thank you for adding text to try to explain more.

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Re: Unneeded discussions regarding Hyperbola

I see these kind of discussion not possible to be solved. So those are the final words from my side. Does not make much more sense and therefore the best solution is that when people have interest: They are surely invited to ask. The rest? Up to everyone else. We do ours, they do theirs. All the best for the people, but it would be better to leave everyone in peace. smile

But please do NOT name the original threads here or discuss those in combination. Really, this does not make sense and we have here no interest in any debate throughout two different forums. This would be really beyond and outside our interest. I understand that you want to point out clear information, but this is only possible if all participants have this interest and when a thread starts with "Is this usable?" you can clearly see that this has already given a straight direction.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!