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Topic: Licensing: Clear it up

Hello,

Hyperbola is nevertheless criticized for NOT including PHP, Rust and Java / OpenJDK. Some people even callout that we "have not understood free software" - which is in fact a very harsh and not reasonable misrepresentation of WHAT Hyperbola wants and does. So clearing this once again:

We have excluded Rust, Java / OpenJDK and also PHP. This does not mean that people are bound into our decision. But we have also explained more than once why we did that, why we are not going to include them back again (besides that Rust needs Rust for compilation so that train has surely left the station once and for all and Java needs Java, same point). If people want those packages and run same way Hyperbola: Everyone can add those with creating own packages and package-repositories. You can add, share and modify what you want. But then you also bear the consequences of your decisions. Yes, that sounds strict and not even friendly. But how should I describe that in different wording? It is exactly that.

So you want PHP, Rust and Java? Sure thing, do as you want. You think we are not right in our decision? Change it, approve it and support us also. But posting elsewhere in forums (not ours here, which is even more impertinent), writing mailing-lists and more, does help exactly where or who? We did and do the best we can to protect software-freedom. If you are not complying with our decision, that's fine. But this does not mean you have to stumble upon and state elsewhere that we "made mistakes" or "don't understand". This does not help us and in fact it even damages the whole community. Besides again also to underline: HyperbolaBSD is our goal. So we have no interest to even distribute and include more packages.

For reference:

https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id … _trademark
https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id … _downfalls
https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id … _trademark
https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id … trademarks
https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id … y_software
https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id … e_packages

Personal statement

It is not okay from my point of view to do this loop on-going and discussing Hyperbola on third-party forums. And yes, I read that on-going, not because I'm longer interested but more about what is coming this time. This is exhausting and people posting seem to think not further: We remove a package, incoming discussions here. We give reasoning, incoming discussions elsewhere. We contact the FSF and ask for further information and help, incoming discussions. But all around is only "discussing perspectives without any clear way forward", also the FSF has not granted us until now any kind of further answer (ticket-number #1978123 for reporting the PHP-license). So we did all possible and preserve Hyperbola in its way. No one is enforced to use Hyperbola, but it is dishonest to debate us elsewhere and confront us with accusations or assumptions personal noted. When you want to help? Then help, stop debating and bring up facts.

I thought that free, libre software represents also an altruistic perspective including working together for a different kind of software. Not that harsh on-going accusations like we are in some kind of perverted competition who is MORE free and has the ultimate facts on the table. When I read the mentioned postings I almost read "from my perspective", "I think" and so on all the time. Parts from our wiki are copied leaving other parts just out and creating a false impression. I personal see there within a framing done: To blame Hyperbola as project and the people within also. That is incorrect, it is just dishonest. When quoting, please do with all information included. We read that and rework our wiki-articles. But again in the end: Rust and OpenJDK have left the station. To recreate those packages - for interested people in repositories - Rust and OpenJDK are needed. This creates a circle dependency, so all left is only bootstrapping to create the packages from scratch. Why should we do that, when Java and Rust have already issues in their licenses (not speaking about the rest and the package-management)? PHP is coming the same from another direction. But getting back also about those vague sentences in some postings: When you "think", that is your concurrent impression. You can also point on the license-site on the FSF, where clearly said that the FSF is NOT recommending that license. It is just somewhat compatible. That's all.

And in the end speaking about package-management: Why should we add even more package-managers for programming-lanaguages? Our interest is minimalism, not maximize the complexity just because more software wants that and more projects demand this. But perhaps I'm wrong and some people are just bored? Having fun to do finger-pointing and afterwards also fun to read postings and thread like this one where we try to get on hold all this and send a signal for support? And sure: We don't get support, just some more messages and finger-pointing. VERY helpful.

For the people reading and being active here: And that's also a reasoning why we are all-time bothered. We document, we explain, we evaluate and repeat again. Coming out of this circle is impossible as long as people are just writing elsewhere postings and the FSF is not cleaning their own desk as many licenses listed (Link). Underlining the wording: GPL-Incompatible Free Software Licenses. They listed them as "free", but some of them have clear warnings in their description. That's only a compromise, nothing more. We have also licenses being there for another review later on for HyperbolaBSD-migration. But therefore we reduce the amount of packages and also want critical parts listed excluding software using that licensing-model. We stated that HyperbolaBSD wants to reach out rewritten code licensed under the GPL, rest also reviewed and most free, libre licensed. That's all for reasoning, not for just "somewhat free".

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

2 (edited by zapper 2024-02-11 01:35:14)

Re: Licensing: Clear it up

Java is effectively insecure regardless though. As for rust? It  is huge and the developer of badwolf seemed to indicate that it may have coding issues similar to node.js.

As for php, I hear that also has problems security wise. Long story short, you shouldn't be criticized at all for that,

Besides, java and rust particularly, are very unfree. php is sketchy on whether it is free in my opinion, but its not needed for much anyhow so... not an issue.

I wanted to respond to this a while ago, but forgot

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