376 Reply by throgh

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

Another package getting a complete rework is openttd: As it offers the possibility to download packages internal we will remove those functionalities complete for the next update to come and include therefore all needed parts in our repositories. With 0.4.5 our version openttd won't download any data from other repositories and we have the following added / reworked:

openttd-opengfx
openttd-opensfx
openttd-openmsx

Also all of those mentioned data-packages will be compiled and created from sources, as they won't be done from just pre-compiled packaged before. With the reworks users will be also able to modify and create own data for openttd, resulting within a free, libre games as it should be.

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Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

377 Reply by throgh

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

As we have now the first bunch of packages rebuild and also the big number of removals: Next on the rework-list ...

warmux
freedoom
njam
geeqie
pioneer
megaglest
flightgear
torcs
fillet-ng

Including the removal of

swell-foop
libchamplain
gthumb
giblib
atomicparsley
baobab
opencity
naturaldocs
trophy
clanlib10
tuxfootball
tbe
perl-cpan-meta
perl-test-simple
voxelands
speed-dreams
nikwi
berusky
berusky2
late
progsreiserfs
lksctp-tools
rebar
erlang
erlang-headless
elixir
zzzfm
zzzfm-gtk2
alock
legendofedgar
rrootage
transcend
bcrawl
xcrawl
advancecomp
pngcrush
signus
sar
sar2
biniax2
blockout2
blobwars
blockattack
crrcsim
mazeofgalious
marsshooter
ardour
ecasound
xjadeo
libltc
libwebsockets
rubberband
new-session-manager
aubio
python-aubio
pfetch
alure
nuklear

Furthermore we remove data-packages from some games as we will provide them fully in one package with 0.4.5 and beyond:

megaglest-data
fillets-ng-data
torcs-data
flightgear-data

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

378 Reply by throgh

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

Next to be removed:

znc
mirrormagic
atanks
ballz
open-invaders
chroma
openkropki
guichan
aldumb
allegro-legacy
hannah
billard-gl
yate
yaics
abbayedesmorts
amoebax
amphetamine
angband
azimuth
beret
minetest
minetest-common
minetest-server
minetestmapper
love
mrrescue
stk-editor
slade
zdbsp
zennode
sgt-puzzles
audacity (will be replaced with audacity-legacy)

Annotation therefore: It is not possible for us as small system and team behind to manage a big amount of packages. As no interested for packaging has risen further the hands we reduce as much as possible for our next version 0.4.5.

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Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

379 Reply by throgh

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

Current state of audacity: Perhaps people noted, perhaps not ... we are not fine with the current state of the project. Therefore we have tried to integrate tenacity also with a much amount of work in the last days. And with "much amount of work" I mean:

- days and nights working through, weekends included with not much free time
- updating packages needed
- choosing possible solutions for problems and more

So what is the state of all now? Short: There won't be any tenacity in the near future.

Yes, we have managed to get it running. But it is absolutely unstable running and not performing the same as our current version of audacity. So we will do the same as before with inkscape: We will freeze the software and provide audacity-legacy as following our naming-conventions. More details also: We would be able to upgrade wxgtk but at the cost to provide another legacy-version for filezilla as example. Upgrading filezilla results in the need to upgrade gnutls also and with it around this listing: https://www.hyperbola.info/packages/core/x86_64/gnutls/

This is a big listing to be upgraded and we are just talking about one package in the need for a newer library-version for the newer version to support newer wxgtk-dependencies. Sorry, but NO. Hyperbola is many, but not a machine delivering packages without testing. We are acting very careful and want our software running. When we provide such constructs mentioned, we are doing not any kind of favor, for exactly nobody. Not us, not the community. So we stick for audacity-legacy as new package from an older release being compliant for free and permissive licensed software. But this shows also the problems we are confronted with. Yes, bringing a package towards able to be building successful is fine. But that's only building, nothing more. Having the software reacting very bad on machines with not so much resources was / is one thing, another as mentioned the unstable runtime-behavior. So the decision stands! And yes, even though some might not want to have that in mind but Hyperbola is an operating-system for many generations of hardware, not only the newest. Exactly this is also part of our decision-making, when tenacity is not running good. And we do not need UI / UX wizardry and nice effects. We want to integrate functional software doing its work flawless on many installations, as many as possible to be said. tenacity failed within this test direct from the first startup.

Please therefore remember: Yes, your demand may stands for you. Yes, your wished architecture is important for you. But no, Hyperbola has neither the power of helping hands nor the money to act further with so many tests, tracking and more. If "Linux" is going that way, than sure thing: We switch towards BSD for a reasoning as the time for small systems seem to go straight ending.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

380 Reply by throgh

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

Changing and removing:

nginx -> freenginx

The company F5 has bought nginx (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F5,_Inc.#F5_NGINX). As we are here talking about a critical package being in need of update for fixing security-issues further we are also talking about questionable points within commercializing nginx further. Out of this reasoning we have decided to remove nginx and use freenginx.

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Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

381 Reply by zapper

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

throgh wrote:

Changing and removing:

nginx -> freenginx

The company F5 has bought nginx (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F5,_Inc.#F5_NGINX). As we are here talking about a critical package being in need of update for fixing security-issues further we are also talking about questionable points within commercializing nginx further. Out of this reasoning we have decided to remove nginx and use freenginx.

I see what you mean, yeah... they have absorbed a few different projects.

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

throgh wrote:

Current state of audacity: Perhaps people noted, perhaps not ... we are not fine with the current state of the project. Therefore we have tried to integrate tenacity also with a much amount of work in the last days. And with "much amount of work" I mean:

- days and nights working through, weekends included with not much free time
- updating packages needed
- choosing possible solutions for problems and more

So what is the state of all now? Short: There won't be any tenacity in the near future.

Yes, we have managed to get it running. But it is absolutely unstable running and not performing the same as our current version of audacity. So we will do the same as before with inkscape: We will freeze the software and provide audacity-legacy as following our naming-conventions. More details also: We would be able to upgrade wxgtk but at the cost to provide another legacy-version for filezilla as example. Upgrading filezilla results in the need to upgrade gnutls also and with it around this listing: https://www.hyperbola.info/packages/core/x86_64/gnutls/

This is a big listing to be upgraded and we are just talking about one package in the need for a newer library-version for the newer version to support newer wxgtk-dependencies. Sorry, but NO. Hyperbola is many, but not a machine delivering packages without testing. We are acting very careful and want our software running. When we provide such constructs mentioned, we are doing not any kind of favor, for exactly nobody. Not us, not the community. So we stick for audacity-legacy as new package from an older release being compliant for free and permissive licensed software. But this shows also the problems we are confronted with. Yes, bringing a package towards able to be building successful is fine. But that's only building, nothing more. Having the software reacting very bad on machines with not so much resources was / is one thing, another as mentioned the unstable runtime-behavior. So the decision stands! And yes, even though some might not want to have that in mind but Hyperbola is an operating-system for many generations of hardware, not only the newest. Exactly this is also part of our decision-making, when tenacity is not running good. And we do not need UI / UX wizardry and nice effects. We want to integrate functional software doing its work flawless on many installations, as many as possible to be said. tenacity failed within this test direct from the first startup.

Please therefore remember: Yes, your demand may stands for you. Yes, your wished architecture is important for you. But no, Hyperbola has neither the power of helping hands nor the money to act further with so many tests, tracking and more. If "Linux" is going that way, than sure thing: We switch towards BSD for a reasoning as the time for small systems seem to go straight ending.

Question about tenacity, did you try asking them for help? They are on codeberg.org, hence my curiosity. They seem to be decent people.

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

Not yet as the application is generic running, just very unstable. Sure the people behind tenacity would help, but this won't solve all issues. As also the update for wxgtk is not just done and more complicated: We would have even more problems then solutions afterwards as said. So the decision was and is that tenacity is interesting, but not for now possible or even needed. We keep our audacity as audacity-legacy and can have therefore a working application for the majority.

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Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

384 Reply by throgh

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

Somebody eager to learn more about the land Verunya? wink
A new wallpaper for Hyperbola upcoming with the next timeslot granting a journey for all people loving fantasy-stories as this is themed after the Minetest-world my nephews and me are playing and building.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

385 Reply by throgh

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

eudev is at best coming from upstream systemd udev as a fork. The reality is that beside its once "drop-in replacement" categorization the Gentoo-project is no longer interested in active maintenance and retired eudev, to quote:

I am willing to transfer eudev to another umbrella organization or Linux
distribution that is willing to continue its maintenance, but maintaining
eudev cannot be done purely through proxy-maintaining and requires an
understanding of its internals.  This is a steep learning curve and must
be an earnest effort.  For this reason, the Base System project has decided
not to support eudev as an option going forward.

What is the overall situation then? Well, PostmarketOS is mostly dropping the so-called polyfills (Link). Alpine Linux is active for the moment in combination with Devuan and some left members from Gentoo to look after eudev as project. But to be clear: Mostly all systems in favor with the bigger desktop-environments think about dropping and using further systemd. To be therefore clear: It was really never about rejection for systemd, just technical issues with musl-libc integration. That was solved and therefore also systems are going to drop the rejection. So Gentoo, Alpine and more will sooner or later direct look out for systemd-integration as KDE and Gnome do not work without it or without parts of it. This includes that small projects are left with projects no longer in any active maintenance.

So we are looking further out to tryout removing eudev and also udev with possible version 0.4.6 (not for our current development-cycle). Our goal is to get rid then of udev and use perhaps smdev / mdev. If there is interest helping and testing, we welcome the support for sure. Please support us in the removal of one last part we won't keep for HyperbolaBSD also. So Hyperbola will surely drop eudev and udev. The question is only: Can we plan this in 0.4.6 or do we need a longer time-schedule?

Attention: With the removal of eudev and udev we will surely pay also a price. As the hardware-database will not be there and the rules eudev is using will be no longer working. Other interfaces do not use that syntax and are oriented on simple shellscripts.

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Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

386 Reply by throgh

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

Listing for next packages to be removed:

light
udftools
heimdall
pcmciautils
colord
xiccd
ttf-gamaliel
gimp-devel
remmina (replaced with remmina-legacy)

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Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

387 Reply by zapper (edited by zapper 2024-03-13 03:36:26)

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

throgh wrote:

Listing for next packages to be removed:

light

Huh,

Why light?

Does it not work in BSD?

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388 Reply by throgh

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

Hardcoded dependency for eudev, no BSD-port available. But that's not the whole point: Also technical speaking this is a complete Linux-only package. If you want to keep it for your approach, no problem. But we will not provide further this as about Linux-only orientation. Remember please that Hyperbola does not want this!

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389 Reply by zapper

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

throgh wrote:

Hardcoded dependency for eudev, no BSD-port available. But that's not the whole point: Also technical speaking this is a complete Linux-only package. If you want to keep it for your approach, no problem. But we will not provide further this as about Linux-only orientation. Remember please that Hyperbola does not want this!

Alrighty. I assume then you have something else to do the same job anyhow. Not to mention xsct does exist too.

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

We will reduce samba and its components within the common dependency-trees around packaging. Reasoning behind is that especially samba is a common attack-vector and therefore we can only win when users decide on their own using especially samba but NOT the applications doing so.

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391 Reply by zapper

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

throgh wrote:

We will reduce samba and its components within the common dependency-trees around packaging. Reasoning behind is that especially samba is a common attack-vector and therefore we can only win when users decide on their own using especially samba but NOT the applications doing so.

No arguments from he at all here, I don't even know what most of its actual uses are for.

Something to do with the network share of windows, I think? but beyond that, its specifics capabilities, etc... don't know.

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

Technical emancipation is a responsibility for all of us. So on behalf of Hyperbola it is also sharing the knowledge. I can explain what samba is, but perhaps you use this article here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samba_(software)

The point why we reduce the dependency-tree is likewise the attack-vector in usage as users should decide on their own to create a network-share using the SMB-protocol instead of indirect the applications with using the smbclient as dependency.

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Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

393 Reply by throgh

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

Next to be removed as they are Linux-only and / or not needed for base system:

acpi_call-lts
bbswitch-dkms-lts
bbswitch-lts
vhba-module-lts
tp_smapi-lts
firetools
firejail-lts
ttf-anonymous-pro
ttf-baekmuk
ttf-cherrybomb
otf-elstob
ttf-elstob
ttf-elstob-desktop
ttf-elstob-variable
otf-font-awesome
ttf-font-awesome
ttf-hack
ttf-hanazono
ttf-iosevka
ttf-opendyslexic
ttf-oxanium
otf-lemonada
otf-barlow
hunspell-he (will be replaced with another package)
featherpad
farstream
libnice
gupnp-igd
gupnp
gssdp
rest
cozy-audiobooks
python-apsw
tauthon-apsw
python-peewee
homebank
fltk-examples
flacon
alsa-sndio

Furthermore we will remove rsyslog and list it as incompatible. This project is NOT community-driven. So the listing goes further:

rsyslog
libfastjson
liblogging
libestr
librelp

Please note: Before you complain about removal of packages take into perspective that Hyperbola is not a big system and won't be that also at any point in the future. So if you want packages to stay please provide a stable way to maintain them, either to step up as maintainer or offering a community-port / package. Hyperbola was never a big system, maintaining thousands of packages is not our goal and can't be that also. Please support us, so we all can support each other. Hyperbola is living from the thought of community-driven software, not from convinience promised through corporate projects and companies behind them.

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Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

394 Reply by zapper (edited by zapper 2024-03-27 02:28:00)

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

throgh wrote:

Next to be removed as they are Linux-only and / or not needed for base system:

acpi_call-lts
bbswitch-dkms-lts
bbswitch-lts
vhba-module-lts
tp_smapi-lts
firetools
firejail-lts
ttf-anonymous-pro
ttf-baekmuk
ttf-cherrybomb
otf-elstob
ttf-elstob
ttf-elstob-desktop
ttf-elstob-variable
otf-font-awesome
ttf-font-awesome
ttf-hack
ttf-hanazono
ttf-iosevka
ttf-opendyslexic
ttf-oxanium
otf-lemonada
otf-barlow
hunspell-he (will be replaced with another package)
featherpad
farstream
libnice
gupnp-igd
gupnp
gssdp
rest
cozy-audiobooks
python-apsw
tauthon-apsw
python-peewee
homebank
fltk-examples

Furthermore we will remove rsyslog and list it as incompatible. This project is NOT community-driven. So the listing goes further:

rsyslog
libfastjson
liblogging
libestr
librelp

Please note: Before you complain about removal of packages take into perspective that Hyperbola is not a big system and won't be that also at any point in the future. So if you want packages to stay please provide a stable way to maintain them, either to step up as maintainer or offering a community-port / package. Hyperbola was never a big system, maintaining thousands of packages is not our goal and can't be that also. Please support us, so we all can support each other. Hyperbola is living from the thought of community-driven software, not from convinience promised through corporate projects and companies behind them.


Some of these might not even be needed due to better options such as packet filter.

comparing pf to firejail ie.

I hear pf is much better and way less bloated and easier to use.

I don't know what acpi_call and tp_smapi really do

So... I don't think I care as of now. Other stuff above? No idea though.

Btw, I would still keep an eye on tenacity in case it gets more stable and usable.

It might not be now or ever, but its good to be aware of progress in case things change.

Besides, it would be good to be able to no longer need audacity.

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

Next to be removed:

3c574-cs-firmware
3c589-cs-firmware
pcnet-cs-firmware
serial-cs-firmware
libinklevel
ink
cdeskenv

Furthermore:

telescope
kristall
lagrange
gmnisrv
gmni
cgmnlm
bearssl
devhelp-docs
libsoup

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Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

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Re: [Hyperbola] Going the way and packaging, the roadmap after 0.4

Next for removal and also marked as critical not free and libre:

subversion
apache

Yes, those packages are long-time beloved but they are NOT free and libre. Approval here to read: https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks … ginal-name

With this information the following packages get also removed:

clucene
serf
apr
apr-util
certbot-apache
mod_proxy_uwsgi
python-augeas
augeas
rapidsvn
gtkdialog
python-py3c
libatomic_ops
libabw
libcmis
mythes-en

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!