1 (edited by zapper 2019-12-17 16:18:35)

Topic: Just a quick thing people should know about HyperbolaBSD,

I read the wiki, and it appears to be more than just a libre fork, indeed, it looks less like a fork and based off of OpenBSD but with major changes made to make it more libre.  It may even be more secure because of this, I am no expert, but yeah...

By the way, you should know that a lot of the files will be rewritten from scratch and modified, etc... so it will be incompatible with OpenBSD packages. 


Anyways, I recommend everyone reading the above wiki for more information or if you prefer look below:

HyperbolaBSD

The proper name of the operating system which is being developed by Hyperbola. It is a BSD descendant system with GPL-compatible licenses preserved, non-compatible ones removed, new code written under GPL-3 and new libraries under LGPL-3. It will be modularized like the GNU operating system by using the hyperman utility for package management and HyperRC as its default init system. Its kernel is called as “HyperBK” and library C as “HyperBLibC”.


hyperman is the name chosen for the version of pacman while HyperRC is the name chosen for the version of OpenRC. Both are planned to be a framework (not a fork) to host local modifications and try to push back Hyperbola changes whenever they are good for upstreams too.

The Hyper Berkeley Kernel (HyperBK) is a kernel which is being developed and maintained by Hyperbola. It is a BSD descendant kernel with GPL-compatible licenses preserved, non-compatible ones removed, and new code written under GPL-3.

The Hyper Berkeley C Library (HyperBLibC) is a C library which is being developed and maintained by Hyperbola. It is a BSD descendant C library with GPL-compatible licenses preserved, non-compatible ones removed, new code written under GPL-3 and new libraries under LGPL-3.

HyperbolaBSD: The Future of Secure Libre Lightweight Operating Systems!

2

Re: Just a quick thing people should know about HyperbolaBSD,

It's very interesting to have a look for the development and I'm curious about the upcoming changes - also within the repository. big_smile

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

3 (edited by zapper 2019-12-18 02:00:30)

Re: Just a quick thing people should know about HyperbolaBSD,

throgh wrote:

It's very interesting to have a look for the development and I'm curious about the upcoming changes - also within the repository. big_smile

Yep, same!

PS, LibertyBSD is in no way even close to libre, because even the userspace of OpenBSD has a crap ton of non-free stuff.

My point being, LibertyBSD is not free software.  Moreover, they also deblob it very poorly and its done by someone who knows nothing about BSD. Otherwise LibertyBSD would use LibreSSL, Xenocara and Sndio and not replace them with linux counterparts.

So yeah, I am glad someone who is actually serious about software freedom plans to do this. smile

HyperbolaBSD will be awesome I am sure. smile

HyperbolaBSD: The Future of Secure Libre Lightweight Operating Systems!

4

Re: Just a quick thing people should know about HyperbolaBSD,

Ah you think of the replacements LibertyBSD has done, correct? Yeah, I didn't understand that when I've first read about as I thought and think also today about the native creations better than about the bloated packages we've got here on Linux. Yes, I'm talking about you ... PulseAudio, Xorg and OpenSSL. Even OpenSSL is one good example: How many distributions even use LibreSSL, even though it was ported and being available for GNU/Linux? Alpine ported back to OpenSSL - what a shame. So in the end from my knowledge there are Hyperbola and Void left? Perhaps some others, but the list is not that big. And I'm just talking about Linux, not about BSD.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

5

Re: Just a quick thing people should know about HyperbolaBSD,

throgh wrote:

Ah you think of the replacements LibertyBSD has done, correct? Yeah, I didn't understand that when I've first read about as I thought and think also today about the native creations better than about the bloated packages we've got here on Linux. Yes, I'm talking about you ... PulseAudio, Xorg and OpenSSL. Even OpenSSL is one good example: How many distributions even use LibreSSL, even though it was ported and being available for GNU/Linux? Alpine ported back to OpenSSL - what a shame. So in the end from my knowledge there are Hyperbola and Void left? Perhaps some others, but the list is not that big. And I'm just talking about Linux, not about BSD.

Most linux distros are too lazy or dumb to do anything about openssl, xorg, pulseaudio or system dumb or redhat garbage as a whole...

AlpineLinux made a stupid mistake doing that. LibreSSL is lighter on resources and with much, much less risk to the users.

HyperbolaBSD: The Future of Secure Libre Lightweight Operating Systems!

6

Re: Just a quick thing people should know about HyperbolaBSD,

From my own experience, i might be wrong, but i have experienced many times, although it might be just my imagination... that sound quality with pulseaudio is worse than pure alsa...
I remember when i have played some old rpg game on Artix in the past... I connected my headphones to laptop and played this game, the first location is tower of black mage this music in this tower was so amazing and artix was just pure alsa that i had stopped in this tower for some time just to listen to this orchestra hahah.... I have never had similar experiences with sound from games before...

Another funny thing... Three days ago i had been listening to music using alsaplayer <- it is my fav music player... I usually just play cd's so two days ago i think i was listening to music from it and i was like: oh damn why does it sound so bad... I went on terminal typed alsamixer and noticed just one bar and below there was PULSEAUDIO i was like oh damn!!?? how???
So i basically had downloaded gnome/kde packages out of curiosity the same day i think or day before... Oh.. so now i know why!!! I have typed pacman -Rs pulseaudio -c and sound is good again.
After i have experienced how sound good is from pure alsa when i played some windows game on wine when on Artix linux (old lxqt iso is pure alsa) i basically decided that i am not going to bother with pulseaudio i am scared of distributions that come installed with it... Even devuan had it installed by default!!!
Okay you can change the volumes for each program you run, that is nice... Or change sound card... But the sound quality loss that i hear or i imagine i can hear is too much price...

7

Re: Just a quick thing people should know about HyperbolaBSD,

Just an interesting presentation from the concurrent event 36c3: In this concurrent "talk" OpenBSD itself is the object for more insights and I was suprised having some interesting insights. I think HyperbolaBSD has a good chance being something different and more from the ground up:

  • Having tracking for issues here?

  • Usage of git as VCS (Version Control System)?

  • Documentation within Wiki-system?

And that's just the points I had from the end of the talk.
Here you can find more:

https://media.ccc.de/v/36c3-10519-a_sys … itigations
https://isopenbsdsecu.re/

Note: I have no further favor for those meme-like phrasing and usage of domains. But hey: Information for further collection and evaluation.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

8

Re: Just a quick thing people should know about HyperbolaBSD,

It would have been better to focus on stabilizing the current Hyperbola. I'm really perplex about all of this. Looking at the bugs report page, there is a lot to do. Is there really the manpower to handle so many things ?

9 (edited by throgh 2020-01-07 22:57:10)

Re: Just a quick thing people should know about HyperbolaBSD,

The reasoning itself sounds good: The landscape of "free, libre software" had some major issues and if you want to build the system away from some serious issues like for example enforced integration of Java or Rust you will sooner or later bow or more even just give up. The question is: Fixing the current version of Hyperbola GNU/Linux, but what about the point the current libre-kernel reaches its end of life? Adapt another one? And what about the future? So from that point I think this is a question we should discuss while I understand also the side you mentioned, aether.

But after all: Being onto freedom, security and privacy means also being reasonable and believable. And some projects lost that from my point of view. Java is not free as in freedom. And so it is about much more within the landscape of "Linux" in general - naming flatpak being more and more used without questioning (and there is no further libre repository ahead just some tricks with keysigning of trustful sources), Rust being integrated, Mono the same and so on (Mono has problems with patents and Rust is far away from being free and libre). Long story short: Speaking just about "Linux" I think this is a dead end - just my point of view - as even security-projects are no longer or just for payment developed. No real good future at all and we are not even talking now about the desaster about systemd itself and the vendor lock-ins upcoming. Fixing all those points would be far ahead and too much for this community. So I understand this step getting away from "Linux" and therefore trying to establish something different being more compliant in regards to freedom and security at all.

As the development-team also give insights: They even get not much help as most people seem to focus just on "progress" - whatever this means when ignoring flaws and failures as mentioned within the announcement about HyperbolaBSD.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

10

Re: Just a quick thing people should know about HyperbolaBSD,

I wonder if i will be able to play Hedgewars on HyperBK???

11

Re: Just a quick thing people should know about HyperbolaBSD,

cynicfm wrote:

I wonder if i will be able to play Hedgewars on HyperBK???

Port is available: http://openports.se/games/hedgewars
You can therefore compile it also by yourself as HyperBK is using OpenBSD!

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

12 (edited by cynicfm 2020-01-09 02:13:22)

Re: Just a quick thing people should know about HyperbolaBSD,

throgh wrote:
cynicfm wrote:

I wonder if i will be able to play Hedgewars on HyperBK???

Port is available: http://openports.se/games/hedgewars
You can therefore compile it also by yourself as HyperBK is using OpenBSD!

version 1.0.0 or newer is required for online games, because that'w the version that most people use... Online hedgewars is so much fun... Kind of niche game (compared to big titles) that you can play with other people and enjoy it together... Something like non profit stuff, it's amazing vibe....

I would like to say that i can't wait till this hyperBK thing happens... As offtopic i have decided to not bother with trying to root smartphone, but i would really love to try something like OpenBSD or FreeBSD again so i might install it soon on another partition, although there might be no point... Cuz i am perfectly fine with Hyperbola...
Iceweasel-UXP with NoScript is such an amazing browser!!!!! I can't use it on *BSD so you know... ;P Icedove-UXP is great email stuff too... It just brings me back in times...
I think that linux also becomes too mainstream, not like it's bad thing but it seems like its all different for people... I have never used linux kernel in the past, so i can't imagine what was the KISS philosophy all about... Or do one thing and do it well... But i have read some stuff about this and it gives me some idea how it used to be like... But most linux users don't seem to care about this so whenever i say to somebody i use linux kernel, i am not sure what their reaction can be... Some people think of it ubuntu, others think about that but as what it used to be 10 yrs ago for example or more, but some don't even know what it is and it's all mixed too much... You download some distribution and you use it like windows 10, even arch linux they say it's hard to install, but you know its just few commands so i dont understand why people think make it like it's so hard to install arch... And in the same time it's so bloated these days...


edit: i just wonder how the transformation from Hyperbola Gnu/Linux into HyperbolaBSD is going to look like for typical user??? Will it be neccessary to install it again and create new partition etc. etc. or the HyperBK kernel will replace existing linux one one day????

13 (edited by throgh 2020-01-09 07:16:11)

Re: Just a quick thing people should know about HyperbolaBSD,

I don't think that all packages will be going to dismissed or thrown away. And therefore Iceweasel-UXP or Icedove-UXP could be made ABI-compatible. But that's to be done in the future. Same with Hedgewars and while we are talking: The link is referencing to the concurrent situation, HyperbolaBSD won't be ready tomorrow.

And regarding the "transformation": Yes, I think a complete installation will be necessary. You just can't exchange the kernel and be ready because of the ABI is not compatible. Meaning also: Packages built onto Linux don't run under BSD from startup. You have a chance running them with another compilation, but there is no further guarantee. But there are many sources for help after all. And from my point of view: The ecosystem of Linux (without GNU) has got irreversible damages within the last five years throughout the inclusion of companies for example. And the free, libre software was too silent while "Open-Source" (buzzzword) took over. Nowadays there is no further point of return: Container-nonsense, systemd-integration and much more shown the way and trying to keep a distribution clean, free and secure will become even more complicate, in the future even impossible.

And there is also the possibility to keep Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre as installation besides HyperbolaBSD. Just with running both systems. That would be my plan for example as some software I'm using will be not ported. For example Wine is not running under OpenBSD. So I'd keep my installation in combination with saved ISO-images and local mirrors. If there is interest I could write down how to create a local repository-mirror in the future. smile After all we just don't know if HyperbolaBSD will be also including compability for Wine (example) as they want to use more from different BSD-implementations and not only OpenBSD itself. It is just too early and everything else is based on assumptions not facts!

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!