1

Topic: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

Hello Community,

do you know Purism? The company being focussed on privacy-respecting devices? Especially their freedom-respecting mobile phone Librem 5 is in the news when looking onto libre soft- and hardware. But when looking around there were many bad news within the last month regarding the device and internals of the company not being honest to the community, the employees and their customers.

You all can read it yourself:

The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 : Part 1
The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 : Part 2
The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 : Part 3

Last but not least there is also an interview with the former CTO of Purism Zlatan Todoric available on Phoronix - besides my personal concerns about Phoronix and their handlings regarding free, libre soft- and hardware.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

2 (edited by throgh 2019-11-03 21:58:39)

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

Just as a personal addition: A real mobile device with phone-capabilities running GNU/Linux sounds great. But what is the price for running? And how could the fight go on regarding real free hard- and software? Yes, there is room for speculation, because there are just so many points being intransparent at all and even though the writer of the blog-posts is just clear by himself: It is his personal opinion and handling, not a complete fact.

I think Purism is not honest about the concurrent situation and instead of clear facts and information we've just got big wordings. So what is the price of a marketing-lie? Getting a device, respecting privacy but without the chance of further possibilites getting rid of proprietary firmware-blobs? If Purism would have been honest from the very beginning this would be no further big deal, because it would have been known from my point of view. But it seems the same as with the notebook / laptop before, just to remember their roadmap. When Purism disappears for example, we are just again at the starting point. For me speaking: I won't support that and the fight for freedom, privacy and user-respecting hard- and software is too important! Besides that: There is always the freedom of choice and nobody has to reject the offer from Purism. But I doubt we could get closer to real open, libre hardware with this while the notebook / laptop will never reach the goal of Purism Purist Standard! Neither the Librem will be on that road at all. And in comparison I'll take a closer look onto other projects, but this is another story.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

3 (edited by throgh 2019-11-04 20:26:49)

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

And now a last annotation from myself. after reading throughout forums, comments and so on: This controversy about Purism won't end. There are opinions about ignoring the events, besides there are facts named within the blog-posting, further links with information for example and no backer has received any mobile device until now. Coming is also much whataboutism: When criticizing Purism, one should already use free alternatives like Replicant otherwise there seems no right to criticize. That's just a distraction from the major issues we have here, because Purism is not honest about the concurrent status and even if they could bring up this device: Is there a way to get rid of elementary firmware-blobs?

Yes, I'm using Replicant and I also make usage of LineageOS without proprietary services and as free as it could be with F-Droid - sidenote even there are applications / programs with proprietary interfaces, of course marked before installation. What's next? Am I worthy now to criticize Purism? Let's face the problem: The mobile sector won't become free. Purism is one thing, the others are patents and the companies behind holding the rights onto chips, drivers and interface-routines. Intel called out for Purism to delete a blogpost with information about reverse-engineering the FSP: Remember the roadmap? Look also here. Yes, seems the question was done "politely" but it doesn't mask the major issue I have named earlier. To quote:

2018-05-10 UPDATE: Intel politely asked Purism to remove this document which Intel believes may conflict with a licensing term. Since this post was informational only and has no impact on the future goals of Purism, we have complied. If you would like the repository link of the Intel FSP provided from Intel, please visit their publicly available code on the subject.

2018-04-23 UPDATE: after receiving a courtesy request from Intel’s Director of Software Infrastructure, we have decided to remove this post’s technical contents while we investigate our options. You are still welcome to learn about reverse engineering in general with my introductory post on the matter, Introduction to Reverse Engineering: A Primer Guide.

You've got it? Purism even tells us about the problem, but in the end it's always about devices with privacy, big wordings for "customers", not human beings with the view on free, libre hard- and software and the (perhaps utopian) hope for a "better tomorrow". So it's about "believing" and whenever this is brought up humans tend to react more or less harsh. My point being stays: Companies like Purism use the believe, making up a marketing about it. Their first release of the Librem-notebooks? Full proprietary hardware. Afterwards coreboot-port came up this got better. That's the contrary of being honest at all but even though: We could believe and the question stays. What is the price of believing? A price for a lie and self-deception? It is becoming clear for me that I better wait for another round of Replicant, even LineageOS is not my way to go. But I have to live with compromises because the x86-platform is full of freedom-issues as the mobile platform is also same here. But those marketing-lies are even worse. And just having a device being "a little bit more free" is not better as I'm ignoring possible vendor-lockins for now. What about applications pre-installed? As nobody reviewed the Librem-device in the "wild" we doesn't know anything and I'm not sure Purism will mark their so-called "social platform" as optional. Besides I also add that I hope Purism will change their course, being more honest and open to the people and that their idea could in one way be successful. Yeah, as the blog-posting itself notes at the end: Having the chance for GNU/Linux being on a mobile device with phone-capabilities could be helpful for others to come. I'm not trusting the mentioned company, but I'm with hope for the basic idea itself. Strange, isn't it? I don't need a copy of "Apple" within free, libre soft- and hardware - mentioned within the article on Phoronix. What I want is just this: A device which I can handle as mine, where I am in charge respecting my whishes for a companion not spying onto my data and files. The ideal would be even fair handled, really free hardware, not causing harm / damage onto others and the environment itself - as I've said earlier in this posting, an "utopian" whish which is not made up as "marketing-lie" as I'm not believing in capitalistic values and system schemes (I don't even care about names and patents as they also do more harm than being useful). That's all for now!

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

4 (edited by zapper 2019-11-05 00:15:29)

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

throgh wrote:

And now a last annotation from myself. after reading throughout forums, comments and so on: This controversy about Purism won't end. There are opinions about ignoring the events, besides there are facts named within the blog-posting, further links with information for example and no backer has received any mobile device until now. Coming is also much whataboutism: When criticizing Purism, one should already use free alternatives like Replicant otherwise there seems no right to criticize. That's just a distraction from the major issues we have here, because Purism is not honest about the concurrent status and even if they could bring up this device: Is there a way to get rid of elementary firmware-blobs?

Yes, I'm using Replicant and I also make usage of LineageOS without proprietary services and as free as it could be with F-Droid - sidenote even there are applications / programs with proprietary interfaces, of course marked before installation. What's next? Am I worthy now to criticize Purism? Let's face the problem: The mobile sector won't become free. Purism is one thing, the others are patents and the companies behind holding the rights onto chips, drivers and interface-routines. Intel called out for Purism to delete a blogpost with information about reverse-engineering the FSP: Remember the roadmap? Look also here. Yes, seems the question was done "politely" but it doesn't mask the major issue I have named earlier. To quote:

2018-05-10 UPDATE: Intel politely asked Purism to remove this document which Intel believes may conflict with a licensing term. Since this post was informational only and has no impact on the future goals of Purism, we have complied. If you would like the repository link of the Intel FSP provided from Intel, please visit their publicly available code on the subject.

2018-04-23 UPDATE: after receiving a courtesy request from Intel’s Director of Software Infrastructure, we have decided to remove this post’s technical contents while we investigate our options. You are still welcome to learn about reverse engineering in general with my introductory post on the matter, Introduction to Reverse Engineering: A Primer Guide.

You've got it? Purism even tells us about the problem, but in the end it's always about devices with privacy, big wordings for "customers", not human beings with the view on free, libre hard- and software and the (perhaps utopian) hope for a "better tomorrow". So it's about "believing" and whenever this is brought up humans tend to react more or less harsh. My point being stays: Companies like Purism use the believe, making up a marketing about it. Their first release of the Librem-notebooks? Full proprietary hardware. Afterwards coreboot-port came up this got better. That's the contrary of being honest at all but even though: We could believe and the question stays. What is the price of believing? A price for a lie and self-deception? It is becoming clear for me that I better wait for another round of Replicant, even LineageOS is not my way to go. But I have to live with compromises because the x86-platform is full of freedom-issues as the mobile platform is also same here. But those marketing-lies are even worse. And just having a device being "a little bit more free" is not better as I'm ignoring possible vendor-lockins for now. What about applications pre-installed? As nobody reviewed the Librem-device in the "wild" we doesn't know anything and I'm not sure Purism will mark their so-called "social platform" as optional. Besides I also add that I hope Purism will change their course, being more honest and open to the people and that their idea could in one way be successful. Yeah, as the blog-posting itself notes at the end: Having the chance for GNU/Linux being on a mobile device with phone-capabilities could be helpful for others to come. I'm not trusting the mentioned company, but I'm with hope for the basic idea itself. Strange, isn't it? I don't need a copy of "Apple" within free, libre soft- and hardware - mentioned within the article on Phoronix. What I want is just this: A device which I can handle as mine, where I am in charge respecting my whishes for a companion not spying onto my data and files. The ideal would be even fair handled, really free hardware, not causing harm / damage onto others and the environment itself - as I've said earlier in this posting, an "utopian" whish which is not made up as "marketing-lie" as I'm not believing in capitalistic values and system schemes (I don't even care about names and patents as they also do more harm than being useful). That's all for now!

Alas, modem will never be freed, and I think even half of the android device can't be freed easily.  That would take a friggin miracle. ;/

That being said, my issue with purism is their credibility and integrity/honesty. 

I myself have a phone, but I will not be spending money on a lie, ever...

Anywho,  mobile phones won't change till our world governments force them to change.   Which as we know, is a strict impossibility at this time and probably for a long time to come.  It may never change to be honest. ;/

Though I wish at the very least they would forbid corporations from selling information especially to each other.

Hyperbola:

The Stable Secure Libre Arch!

5 (edited by throgh 2019-11-05 21:26:34)

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

zapper wrote:

Alas, modem will never be freed, and I think even half of the android device can't be freed easily.  That would take a friggin miracle. ;/

That being said, my issue with purism is their credibility and integrity/honesty. 

I myself have a phone, but I will not be spending money on a lie, ever...

Anywho,  mobile phones won't change till our world governments force them to change.   Which as we know, is a strict impossibility at this time and probably for a long time to come.  It may never change to be honest. ;/

Though I wish at the very least they would forbid corporations from selling information especially to each other.

The politics could start over with a first step just using more free, libre software (not open-source) within public departments instead of proprietary environments. People pay for services, so all people have the right to get a look onto the used soft- and hardware. When using free, libre software the departments could recognize the basic problems and then there is this little chance for other ways.

But this is just an utopian view: In our world there are capitalistic rules with a whole bunch of neoliberal self-deception. Just running for the carrot never to reach in a hamster wheel keeps going and going. It's even more sinister and dark as I was called "radical" just a few days ago for calling out those principles in another forum regarding Linux (without GNU). Instead of getting the image people tend to be aggressive and getting abusive calling some really smear arguments and rhetorical really bad tricks. So this was just a small example, the bigger ones would be even more ignoring the major issues: Patents, big wordings with big lies and so on. And just "a little bit more free" from a company like Purism is not the way to go in the end. Whenever this device is ready, this is just a helper for others to come. The question is: Is there really interest? Because that's the major point and having GNU/Linux on mobile devices with phone-capabilities (those are not telephones from my point of view, instead complex, little computer systems with also possible risks) is a view being helpful but unknown because Purism do as always shady marketing-tricks instead of being honest with people - which is also reducing the interest in a whole besides the common ignorance demonstrated (there are "Android" and "Apple", why others? common poor question).

Annotation: I don't want to generalize but some participants within the global Linux-community seem to have serious issues with distributions like Hyperbola, Parabola, Trisquel, Dragora and gNewSense. They never get tired to emphasize that those distributions don't have anything got on their own for example building packages and projects, just take from "others", no "own contribution". And showing them the progress here, meaning the replacement with Xenocara and LibreSSL, the inclusion of sndio, doesn't count. They just ignore this! And so any further criticism towards Purism will be ignored as most further problems within the "open-source"-endorsement itself is ignored and "free, libre software" is made more or less irrelevant just for believing this marketing-lies and cheap promises - only giving some insight what I've got as answers in summary. Thing is: If "we" really take software freedom seriously there has to be a combination and only having some kind of progress in regard to privacy is just terribly wrong. Afterwards you've got some mobile computer-system with no chance of being free in the manner of the whole definition of software-freedom, a very cheap compromise. And I have no understatement for this as I have no further understatement for this endless debate ongoing about only one init-systems, only one audio-service, only one major X-server for implementation. Just making the people some kind of free and directly dependent from other sources, just they ignore it again and again as some kind of story to being repeated, even in other distributions focussed in software-freedom.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

6

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

throgh wrote:
zapper wrote:

Alas, modem will never be freed, and I think even half of the android device can't be freed easily.  That would take a friggin miracle. ;/

That being said, my issue with purism is their credibility and integrity/honesty. 

I myself have a phone, but I will not be spending money on a lie, ever...

Anywho,  mobile phones won't change till our world governments force them to change.   Which as we know, is a strict impossibility at this time and probably for a long time to come.  It may never change to be honest. ;/

Though I wish at the very least they would forbid corporations from selling information especially to each other.

The politics could start over with a first step just using more free, libre software (not open-source) within public departments instead of proprietary environments. People pay for services, so all people have the right to get a look onto the used soft- and hardware. When using free, libre software the departments could recognize the basic problems and then there is this little chance for other ways.

But this is just an utopian view: In our world there are capitalistic rules with a whole bunch of neoliberal self-deception. Just running for the carrot never to reach in a hamster wheel keeps going and going. It's even more sinister and dark as I was called "radical" just a few days ago for calling out those principles in another forum regarding Linux (without GNU). Instead of getting the image people tend to be aggressive and getting abusive calling some really smear arguments and rhetorical really bad tricks. So this was just a small example, the bigger ones would be even more ignoring the major issues: Patents, big wordings with big lies and so on. And just "a little bit more free" from a company like Purism is not the way to go in the end. Whenever this device is ready, this is just a helper for others to come. The question is: Is there really interest? Because that's the major point and having GNU/Linux on mobile devices with phone-capabilities (those are not telephones from my point of view, instead complex, little computer systems with also possible risks) is a view being helpful but unknown because Purism do as always shady marketing-tricks instead of being honest with people - which is also reducing the interest in a whole besides the common ignorance demonstrated (there are "Android" and "Apple", why others? common poor question).

Annotation: I don't want to generalize but some participants within the global Linux-community seem to have serious issues with distributions like Hyperbola, Parabola, Trisquel, Dragora and gNewSense. They never get tired to emphasize that those distributions don't have anything got on their own for example building packages and projects, just take from "others", no "own contribution". And showing them the progress here, meaning the replacement with Xenocara and LibreSSL, the inclusion of sndio, doesn't count. They just ignore this! And so any further criticism towards Purism will be ignored as most further problems within the "open-source"-endorsement itself is ignored and "free, libre software" is made more or less irrelevant just for believing this marketing-lies and cheap promises - only giving some insight what I've got as answers in summary. Thing is: If "we" really take software freedom seriously there has to be a combination and only having some kind of progress in regard to privacy is just terribly wrong. Afterwards you've got some mobile computer-system with no chance of being free in the manner of the whole definition of software-freedom, a very cheap compromise. And I have no understatement for this as I have no further understatement for this endless debate ongoing about only one init-systems, only one audio-service, only one major X-server for implementation. Just making the people some kind of free and directly dependent from other sources, just they ignore it again and again as some kind of story to being repeated, even in other distributions focussed in software-freedom.

So many problems to discuss:

You are not at all radical, they are just plain dumb.

Hyperbola is a vast change from Arch. that's number 2:

Dragora might is an independent project number 3,

Trisquel, Parabola and Gnewsense are crap for multiple reasons one of which being poettering garbage is embedding in a lot of it.

the other thing though, is they are just purely a fork.  There are no big changes made to them except removing the non-free parts.

As for everything else, progress is progress.  Those people who don't count Xenocara, Sndio and LibreSSL changes have no understanding of what they are talking about and they are just downright dumb.

I bet some of them are system dumb supporters or worse, poettering supporters.

People who support Lennart poettering's method of changing gnu/linux so drasticly have no right to speak. Plain and simple. hmm

Hyperbola:

The Stable Secure Libre Arch!

7 (edited by throgh 2019-11-06 10:18:53)

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

Well, at all Mr. Poettering and some of us have different views onto how to handle GNU/Linux and therefore: Yes. smile
It is this concept of ignoring everything which annoys me. Instead of letting different views and approaches exist, using the phrase Live and let live!, everything is talked down under the table and therefore all the fine work done and reached is nevertheless right out of the view, because of the fast living of information.

I have no further problem with the existance of systemd, but I don't want to use it and I don't see any further usecase for such a big package. Another point also within the Librem-discussion because from my concurrent knowledge PureOS makes usage of systemd and is also using Gnome as basic for the mobile device and no further information about other ports like PostmarketOS here besides the already known marketing: You are free to install other operating systems!

Good joke at all, Purism! But perhaps they have a further demonstration about when the device is ready? wink
I hope all my criticism is just wrong, because otherwise we have another environment existing - when they are ready - with vendor-lockin. Because how is the guarantee when another system is installed and something is malfunctional or even worse? Most known: Delivered with PureOS and only therefore a guarantee and support. Everything else outside or perhaps community-support. And getting back to the blog-posts and articles: Not a round picture, even worse regarding freedom.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

8 (edited by throgh 2019-11-28 23:50:59)

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

Well, a short update in this: As Purism stated yesterday in a posting they are really ready now to deliver. So far, so interesting as also the PinePhone is ready for a more concrete insight from developers (Link). Seems now we could have more concrete details in the near future.

EDIT: Updating the timeline here and being curious about the further progress. The critical points just stay the same! wink

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

9 (edited by zapper 2019-11-29 04:02:41)

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

throgh wrote:

Well, at all Mr. Poettering and some of us have different views onto how to handle GNU/Linux and therefore: Yes. smile
It is this concept of ignoring everything which annoys me. Instead of letting different views and approaches exist, using the phrase Live and let live!, everything is talked down under the table and therefore all the fine work done and reached is nevertheless right out of the view, because of the fast living of information.

I have no further problem with the existance of systemd, but I don't want to use it and I don't see any further usecase for such a big package. Another point also within the Librem-discussion because from my concurrent knowledge PureOS makes usage of systemd and is also using Gnome as basic for the mobile device and no further information about other ports like PostmarketOS here besides the already known marketing: You are free to install other operating systems!

Good joke at all, Purism! But perhaps they have a further demonstration about when the device is ready? wink
I hope all my criticism is just wrong, because otherwise we have another environment existing - when they are ready - with vendor-lockin. Because how is the guarantee when another system is installed and something is malfunctional or even worse? Most known: Delivered with PureOS and only therefore a guarantee and support. Everything else outside or perhaps community-support. And getting back to the blog-posts and articles: Not a round picture, even worse regarding freedom.

I have been tempted many a time to go on systemd websites with a username like allhailredhat and troll the crap out of people who love poettering/redhat crap.  and be like, "In the name of the holy redhat and poettering i beseech you and offer you gratitude for trying to make gnu/linux into the donald trump of operating systems."

Something like that... wink


Debian or archlinux users would get pissed off i am sure by that. xD

But yeah, i really strongly dislike the redhat trend that is happening with gnu/linux... ;/

Hyperbola:

The Stable Secure Libre Arch!

10 (edited by throgh 2019-11-29 07:45:28)

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

zapper wrote:

I have been tempted many a time to go on systemd websites with a username like allhailredhat and troll the crap out of people who love poettering/redhat crap.  and be like, "In the name of the holy redhat and poettering i beseech you and offer you gratitude for trying to make gnu/linux into the donald trump of operating systems."

Something like that... wink


Debian or archlinux users would get pissed off i am sure by that. xD

But yeah, i really strongly dislike the redhat trend that is happening with gnu/linux... ;/

As long as diversity is possible systemd is an "interesting" concept. And as I've said: Yeah, it can be used. But this project is getting just to big as it is not an INIT-system any longer. Instead it is a complete management interface for many things regarding Linux (without GNU). I'm cutting out "GNU" because this "interesting concept" just takes everything for now. The comparison to some mindsets of Microsoft is really fitting as this company itself is seemless accepted now, because they "love Open-Source".

Good joking at all: Microsoft will never love "Open-Source" and "Open-Source" is just pragmatic about everything. There is no social and ethic concept combined within getting also freedom and views for all participants transported. It's just about: Take it, it's "free" - okay "free" as long as "we" think it should be. This pragmatism will break and eat up Linux (without GNU again) because there is no thought about the problems and when it's up in the mindes perhaps one day, it'll be too late. Time is now for alternatives, because the Linux-kernel is just one possibility and GNU is just bigger as the idea of free, libre software is. smile

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

11 (edited by zapper 2019-11-29 15:42:14)

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

throgh wrote:
zapper wrote:

I have been tempted many a time to go on systemd websites with a username like allhailredhat and troll the crap out of people who love poettering/redhat crap.  and be like, "In the name of the holy redhat and poettering i beseech you and offer you gratitude for trying to make gnu/linux into the donald trump of operating systems."

Something like that... wink


Debian or archlinux users would get pissed off i am sure by that. xD

But yeah, i really strongly dislike the redhat trend that is happening with gnu/linux... ;/

As long as diversity is possible systemd is an "interesting" concept. And as I've said: Yeah, it can be used. But this project is getting just to big as it is not an INIT-system any longer. Instead it is a complete management interface for many things regarding Linux (without GNU). I'm cutting out "GNU" because this "interesting concept" just takes everything for now. The comparison to some mindsets of Microsoft is really fitting as this company itself is seemless accepted now, because they "love Open-Source".

Good joking at all: Microsoft will never love "Open-Source" and "Open-Source" is just pragmatic about everything. There is no social and ethic concept combined within getting also freedom and views for all participants transported. It's just about: Take it, it's "free" - okay "free" as long as "we" think it should be. This pragmatism will break and eat up Linux (without GNU again) because there is no thought about the problems and when it's up in the mindes perhaps one day, it'll be too late. Time is now for alternatives, because the Linux-kernel is just one possibility and GNU is just bigger as the idea of free, libre software is. smile


We really need a free software users foundation I think.  One that strictly adheres to actual software freedom, including against licenses that are free but are used for anti-freedom purposes like redhat's dbus, or systemd, or even pulseaudio and networkmanager.

how to implement though is extremely difficult though...

Hyperbola:

The Stable Secure Libre Arch!

12 (edited by throgh 2019-11-29 19:19:57)

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

zapper wrote:

We really need a free software users foundation I think.  One that strictly adheres to actual software freedom, including against licenses that are free but are used for anti-freedom purposes like redhat's dbus, or systemd, or even pulseaudio and networkmanager.

how to implement though is extremely difficult though...

Agreed, but we also need to get away from pragmatism. A pragmatic view on software tends at last ending again onto Copyright instead of copyleft or permissive licenses. There are enough participants out there thinking and writing about "Copyright", meaning at last also "sharing" as form of piracy. Using smear wordings is far more spreading these days instead of thinking about alternatives. First there has to be far more thinking in terms of libre, free ways.

And it is not about getting software some kind of "pure", it is about ourselves and questioning the way we want wisdom and just even knowledge spreading as they are keys to software and more insights.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

13 (edited by throgh 2019-12-27 20:23:10)

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

Okay, it seems that neither Librem 5 nor Pine Phone are really any kind of an option regarding freedom for now. The problem for the Pine Phone especially for the so-called blob-less implementations is just being "free" within userspace and not far deeper as proprietary firmware is called. A quick check for the corresponding build-script getting clear as noted within: nonfree_firmware()

So if you want really free mobile soft- and hardware: Forget about it for now!

Perhaps there is something in future, but not now as both chances are again given away and just the usage of forseeable marketing-speech is given. Much ado about nothing: Blobless? Good joking. wink

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

14

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

I think it's nearly impossible to create freedom/privacy respecting phone when in fact probably every phone network provider in most countries want to record your every phone call and text message...

15

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

Absolutely and that's the major issue while only a simple minority of some companies have the monopoly about chips manufactured for those devices - yeah, talking about you for example Broadcom. Therefore it is an illusion and better off being or just stay with some simple device deserving the name "phone" as only having those capabilities. smile

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

16 (edited by throgh 2019-12-30 01:57:26)

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

Nah, wrong thread. Moved content!

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

17

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

Well, there are steps taken getting the Pinephone useable, especially from the team of PostmarketOS. I have to admit that I'm looking from time to time after this device and the process taken furthermore. Yes, it won't be completely free at all and perhaps will be never at this state. But that's another story for now: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/PINE … pinephone)

Outstanding process from the team and there will be even more in the future like support for "Android" throughout Anbox perhaps in the future? https://postmarketos.org/blog/2020/02/1 … n-2020-02/

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

18 (edited by throgh 2020-05-29 08:48:39)

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

You think you can make any mobile device with phone capabilities more secure with alternative ROMs? Think again: Android is full with freedom flaws and neither shortened thoughts like Google is doing that for some kind of "evil planning" nor any further tryout to fight against windmills help here. Android is damaged from the ground reasoning as every device got a clear ID and this is inbound for tracking. Well, in the end it is just more about the money to make from data in the first step and there will be more steps coming when people look after the potential of collected data throughout advertising. Again: No plan in the long run, but just think about any totalitary system, any fascist system in the making with access to all the collected data. Well? Got it? Okay, and now come again with the thought about having Android in some way "free as in freedom"? Think again about your mobile device being just a complete computer. And think again about being trustworthy with those on the one hand, but otherwise looking after conspiracy ideologies on the other hand where it is clear that this a "roadtrip" based on shortened decisions for the fast money - stop following those shortened stories and think / discuss.

Same here with Purism with the complete shortened picture to become "the Apple of open-source hardware". Congratulations to replicate a failed rolemodel and again more of the known: systemd as absolute component in PureOS being part of a complex computing device with some kind of phone capabilities and nevertheless integral parts being not free. Sad story? Yes, it is and it will stay a hard walk on the line towards freedom, security and privacy as base democratic values, the opposite is arrogance and ignorance in the short outcome first and in the long perspective the desastrous amount of danger for everyone confronted with the flaws and failures of our concurrent generations here and now. It is all about ignorant and arrogant decisions, nothing more in the first place. The consequences are some other side of this tragic.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

19 (edited by cynicfm 2020-05-31 00:34:56)

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

How to try use only libre free as in freedom software ONLY and devices when everybody around you including relatives use smartphones on daily basis, have facebook accounts, spotify... When people just around you don't think that nothing is for free there because they sell their data...
So i use android smartphone but i rooted it disabled gapps. I use 2 services like mmorpg game and forum, and i know i am giving data about myself to let's say company that made this game and google of course...
But it is limited to two corporates and third parties...

What about people around me and even relatives who regularly use and feel glad about it services like facebook, netflix, spotify, google play store...
I know google is evil and etc. but the point should be to try limit as much as possible account registrations to corporate services. But i have noticed that people don't think about stuff like data give away... What about young generations and kids who are given google/apple smartphones by their parents and they grow up using platforms like youtube/facebook/instagram on daily basis...  So i don't use them but for example my real friends, some of them have gmail e-mail account... Now i should stop contacting them and be completely lonely and no contacts cuz they're on corporate e-mail... Or when i am lonely and bored i play this mmorpg on android smartphone and this game requires java... I know that they collect data about me but well... It's only one company... It's the price i am paying to not be competely depressed and lonely person.
Everyone should try limit corporate services they use, but for me it is not possible to be 100% libre. Because this what society is these days. Throughout years i deleted steam account and battle.net blizzard as well... And also 10 gmail accounts i had...
But some services won't let you delete your data if you can't prove that you're owner oof account lmao...

20

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

I know the answer is not the best to follow, but: It is on everyone to decide what is okay in the first place. But this decision will have an impact on others and that's making everything else so complex. In fact every decision can have an impact on others, even to decide going on a short trip for a day or staying at home these days - meaning the pandemic itself we are all into. So what to do? That's a question we all have and I think it is not easy giving some final answer on that. So best way is to decide what's relevant for yourself. Do you want to stay away from proprietary services and applications? Or is there a possibility to get them in some form of a sandbox? In the last example I mean old games playing in DOSBox or / and ScummVM, perhaps also some free emulators without being disrespecting the rights of modifications and users in general.

The major problem stay the acceptance of distributions being more and more into mixing different perspectives. Yes, webapplications take more and more into the desktop itself. But those are not really free, full with flaws when we take this serious as JavaScript is a problem itself and NodeJS useless without it. Why exactly packaging it and emulate "freedom" where it is not? Same with Java. And the relevant questioning for Facebook, Spotify and all the others: Is it really important just to use those services and boundaries? Or is it more important to stay in touch with each other? Sorry to say this on the hard way, but when a friend only want being contacted throughout Facebook, stay in touch with others there and forget about me, I'd like to question the friendship as a whole. I hope for everyone that's not the case, but to forget about others just because they are not to be found on some "service" (being in no way social) is a complete disrespect. And I hope we as global society can learn to respect each other without those (anti-)social networks / platforms. So staying in touch with family and friends should be in general no further problem. It is all about acceptance, being colourful. smile

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

21 (edited by cynicfm 2020-05-31 08:57:24)

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

ppl on web called me weirdo many times when they sent me link to some 'music' or movie but i said sorry i can't enter thijs link because i don't go on youtube... I have noticed that it destroys communication, because many times i been having conversation with somebody and suddenly i been given some youtube link and you know i am supposed to enter and comment it but i always say sorry i don't go on youtube and this is where usually conversation ends, because other person can't understand that somebody simply stays away from this platform.
edit: and for me it is pain to see people posting links to youtube all the time, on forums etc.
glad there is javascript blocker

22

Re: The sad story about Purism and the Librem?

Yes, happened to me also as I don't wanted links shared to proprietary services back when trying Libertree. Was a bit frustrating being onto a decentralized network and people only use this as some kind enhancer to their other accounts on YouTube, Twitter or even Facebook. Today I'd say that it is about "being seen", to flirt with the digital self-portrait as any account is exactly this.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!