1 (edited by ndonline 2020-11-17 06:59:23)

Topic: Wayland and gnome-shell support soon?

The use of Xenocara is reasonable in the short term, thats nice.

But I am kinda sick of screen tearing, thats one of the reasons I use gnome-shell on my Debian.
Is there any chance to get gnome-shell or other Wayland wm ported and running init-system independent on Hyperbola?
As far as I know the Porabola project has a version of gnome-shell without systemd dependencies in their repos.
I my humble opinion Wayland can't be ignored in the long term.
Are there any plans to support Wayland soon?

2 (edited by dikasp2 2020-11-18 04:02:08)

Re: Wayland and gnome-shell support soon?

If wayland wm preference is your problem currently in fact wayland is available in the repositories.

three wayland wm desktop also available in the repositories (gnome, plasma and sway).

if you installed gnome, upon your login screen you have three session choice
1. gnome (wayland backend, called gnome wayland session in some distro)
2. gnome classic (xenocara backend)
3. gnome on xorg (xenocara backend)



if screen tearing is your problem there is many ways you can do to fix it not only limited to wayland, using compton for example (see archwiki "screen tearing").

wayland is no big different in displaying capabilities with other dm, it just have a built in screen tearing prevention.

overall im afraid on next hyperbola bsd development those wayland things have to wait long to be included again.

3 (edited by ndonline 2020-11-18 06:46:52)

Re: Wayland and gnome-shell support soon?

@dikasp2 Thank you
I wonder why Hyperbola Package Search doesn't show those packages?

4 (edited by dikasp2 2020-11-18 07:26:23)

Re: Wayland and gnome-shell support soon?

im not very sure but looks like the hyperbola package search reflects the packages from hyperbola bsd version so there is still many missing unported packages

you may ask the main developer to confirm this if you curious

in meantime you can check for yourself the list of all available packages:
[stable]
https://repo.hyperbola.info:50012/gnu-p … le/sources/
[testing]
https://repo.hyperbola.info:50011/gnu-p … g/sources/

5

Re: Wayland and gnome-shell support soon?

We won't support GNOME or wayland in the next version (v0.4) because we are removing all GNU/Linux-based desktop frameworks (ConsoleKit, PolicyKit, D-Bus, systemd, elogind, etc..). Our focus is become a lightweight distro and a BSD descendant operating system (HyperbolaBSD), so our packages in that version will be migrated to BSD-based ones to ease the migration from GNU/Linux to HyperbolaBSD.

6

Re: Wayland and gnome-shell support soon?

Emulatorman wrote:

We won't support GNOME or wayland in the next version (v0.4) because we are removing all GNU/Linux-based desktop frameworks (ConsoleKit, PolicyKit, D-Bus, systemd, elogind, etc..). Our focus is become a lightweight distro and a BSD descendant operating system (HyperbolaBSD), so our packages in that version will be migrated to BSD-based ones to ease the migration from GNU/Linux to HyperbolaBSD.

Sounds fantastic. Please have more packages in hyperbola v0.4. It's the biggest problem with Hyperbola today.

I tried to build python-cryptography earlier but I wasn't able to. My concern was which patches to use. Were the patches made by you yourself or you took it from somewhere?

eg. You have patches here in this gnupg-stable prepare function. Where did they come from?

https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/packag … e/PKGBUILD

When will v0.4 be completed for release approximately?

Today, the forces which make richer and poor poorer have their roots in computer security. Never has it been more important to work towards abolishing the power of the powerful.

Let's use hyperbola or other libre OSes and strive towards stateless hardware (Rutkowska 2015). Let's use GNU/Linux phones and shun Android. Let's make our data available to everyone or else absolutely no one.

7

Re: Wayland and gnome-shell support soon?

sagaracharya wrote:

eg. You have patches here in this gnupg-stable prepare function. Where did they come from?

https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/packag … e/PKGBUILD

All Debian patches come from debian/patches folder. You can search gnupg2 in their package search page -> https://packages.debian.org/search?suit … rds=gnupg2

Then, download gnupg2_2.2.20-1.debian.tar.xz from https://packages.debian.org/source/bullseye/gnupg2

sagaracharya wrote:

When will v0.4 be completed for release approximately?

I suppose it should be ready in 2~3 months, it will depend of stability of our new packages and help of community to test our new version when it is available for that.

8

Re: Wayland and gnome-shell support soon?

Emulatorman wrote:

All Debian patches come from debian/patches folder.

I suppose it should be ready in 2~3 months, it will depend of stability of our new packages and help of community to test our new version when it is available for that.

So, ALL debian patches are applied to the source code of those packages and later, it is built by the arch PKGBUILD method. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Great. I'm in for testing. I'll keep checking for v0.4 on Downloads page. Hopefully, it would have enough packages such that I move from parabola to hyperbola permanently.

If you have some page where you list upcoming packages (which you will be building in the upcoming week) (with versions) to be built, we (community) can build it (write PKGBUILD). I presume currently, there are some dependencies to be built first.

Also, you don't have to trust the community, you can reject PKGBUILD made by community if you find it strange and unacceptable for Hyperbola's standards. It will reduce your work and help forming a community.

Today, the forces which make richer and poor poorer have their roots in computer security. Never has it been more important to work towards abolishing the power of the powerful.

Let's use hyperbola or other libre OSes and strive towards stateless hardware (Rutkowska 2015). Let's use GNU/Linux phones and shun Android. Let's make our data available to everyone or else absolutely no one.

9

Re: Wayland and gnome-shell support soon?

how about lxde or xfce desktop, is there any possibilities to port them into hyperbola 0.4 ?

10

Re: Wayland and gnome-shell support soon?

dikasp2 wrote:

how about lxde or xfce desktop, is there any possibilities to port them into hyperbola 0.4 ?

I'm using xfce and would love to see it return, but I'm not optimistic given that the devs haven't had the resources to keep it up-to-date in 0.3.

My guess is that if keeping xfce up-to-date for hyperbola was a frictionless task they would already be doing it, and that the refined focus on "lightweight" packages is being done to minimize the amount of maintenance so they can prioritize the work on hyperbolaBSD at the moment.

11

Re: Wayland and gnome-shell support soon?

sagaracharya wrote:

So, ALL debian patches are applied to the source code of those packages and later, it is built by the arch PKGBUILD method. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, it is in fact.

sagaracharya wrote:

Great. I'm in for testing. I'll keep checking for v0.4 on Downloads page. Hopefully, it would have enough packages such that I move from parabola to hyperbola permanently.

Ok, i will let you know when v0.4 is ready to begin make testing.

sagaracharya wrote:

If you have some page where you list upcoming packages (which you will be building in the upcoming week) (with versions) to be built, we (community) can build it (write PKGBUILD). I presume currently, there are some dependencies to be built first.

Currently we are near (95%) to complete [core], then we need rebuild all xenocara + mesa packages (same version from v0.3). So, under this stage, we should build at least GTK and Qt to begin push the first packages (DEs, WMs, DMs, applications, etc). Anyway, i think a list of packages requested by community should be the way, however those packages should be as lightweight as possible. If there is an option for that which  doesn't force GNU/Linux-based frameworks (D-Bus, logind/ConsoleKit, Polkit, etc) then it can be considered.

12

Re: Wayland and gnome-shell support soon?

dikasp2 wrote:

how about lxde or xfce desktop, is there any possibilities to port them into hyperbola 0.4 ?

As far as I know, XFCE forces Polkit and needs at least ConsoleKit to make work while i'm not sure about LXDE.

13

Re: Wayland and gnome-shell support soon?

Emulatorman wrote:
dikasp2 wrote:

how about lxde or xfce desktop, is there any possibilities to port them into hyperbola 0.4 ?

As far as I know, XFCE forces Polkit and needs at least ConsoleKit to make work while i'm not sure about LXDE.

Had done short search for getting away from those dependencies. Found the following here in the Gentoo-Wiki (https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/LXDE):

Users however who dislike all those dependencies (dbus, polkit, consolekit, ...) inevitably pulled in by lxsession should have a look at Lumina.

It's a pity, but LXDE seems therefore not fitting into the way as desktop-environment. And well: https://l3net.wordpress.com/2013/03/17/ … -desktops/

Yes, those comparisons are most helpful in the time they were done (the one I've found here was done back in 2013). But the generic comparison won't have changed that much. Especially when looking on the small environments. smile

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

14

Re: Wayland and gnome-shell support soon?

Emulatorman wrote:

We won't support GNOME or wayland in the next version (v0.4) because we are removing all GNU/Linux-based desktop frameworks (ConsoleKit, PolicyKit, D-Bus, systemd, elogind, etc..). Our focus is become a lightweight distro and a BSD descendant operating system (HyperbolaBSD), so our packages in that version will be migrated to BSD-based ones to ease the migration from GNU/Linux to HyperbolaBSD.

This is the best distro ever smile

15

Re: Wayland and gnome-shell support soon?

@Emulatorman

How do you decide which versions of packages to have? Since hyperbola is LTS, I guess the latest versions would not be appropriate for it.

Say, there's python-cryptography versions from last 2.3 which hyperbola had in v0.3 to latest 3.2.1 . How do you decide which python-cryptography to have?

Today, the forces which make richer and poor poorer have their roots in computer security. Never has it been more important to work towards abolishing the power of the powerful.

Let's use hyperbola or other libre OSes and strive towards stateless hardware (Rutkowska 2015). Let's use GNU/Linux phones and shun Android. Let's make our data available to everyone or else absolutely no one.

16

Re: Wayland and gnome-shell support soon?

sagaracharya wrote:

@Emulatorman

How do you decide which versions of packages to have? Since hyperbola is LTS, I guess the latest versions would not be appropriate for it.

Say, there's python-cryptography versions from last 2.3 which hyperbola had in v0.3 to latest 3.2.1 . How do you decide which python-cryptography to have?

Milky Way v0.4 is based on the Debian's BullsEye generation. We made a modification in the development releases, you can see here for further details.