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HyperForum → Packages → When firefox-esr 60.0 comes out,
will debian be moving to 60.0 or staying with the 52.x version?
I am just wondering if we will have the web extensions version of iceweasel in the hyperbola repo when that happens.
So yeah, this could have a major impact on hyperbola.
Can anyone verify what will happen?
Due to several major privacy/stability issues with FF60, our current plan is to provide long-term support to FF52ESR. We will maintain several important privacy addons and work with Basillisk developers to port IceWeasel to UXP.
For reference:
https://basilisk-browser.org/features.shtml
https://github.com/MoonchildProductions/UXP
Due to several major privacy/stability issues with FF60, our current plan is to provide long-term support to FF52ESR. We will maintain several important privacy addons and work with Basillisk developers to port IceWeasel to UXP.
For reference:
https://basilisk-browser.org/features.shtml
https://github.com/MoonchildProductions/UXP
Hmm... Well, I find that somewhat sad, I wish there was firefox addon to port web extensions as an option to firefox esr till 60.0 comes out.
I only say this because, privacy settings the firefox addon and nano adblocker are only available on web extensions.
Well actually nano adblocker doesn't work properly on legacy...
So that's why I asked this question. But yeah, thanks for the info. A definitive answer is always helpful.
ps, what exactly are the security and stability issues?
- UXP has plans to support some WebExt and keep backwards compatibility with old addons such as Random User Agent Spoofer, uBlock Origin, etc. As FF60 breaks all pre-existing addons, we believe that it is good for stability to maintain backwards compatibility for users.
- Mozilla Firefox is implementing parts of Chromium in order to proceed with Quantum integration (largely undocumented, but seen in the source code changes)
- Firefox is moving away from privacy and user control, for example removing individual Cookie Control previously available in FF52
https://www.ghacks.net/2018/02/26/mozil … irefox-60/
- They are trying to align themselves with Chromium WebExt addons, while still doing that poorly.
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Add … tibilities
I'm sure there are other issues, but loosing all legacy addons was a large stability issue for users.
- UXP has plans to support some WebExt and keep backwards compatibility with old addons such as Random User Agent Spoofer, uBlock Origin, etc. As FF60 breaks all pre-existing addons, we believe that it is good for stability to maintain backwards compatibility for users.
- Mozilla Firefox is implementing parts of Chromium in order to proceed with Quantum integration (largely undocumented, but seen in the source code changes)
- Firefox is moving away from privacy and user control, for example removing individual Cookie Control previously available in FF52
https://www.ghacks.net/2018/02/26/mozil … irefox-60/- They are trying to align themselves with Chromium WebExt addons, while still doing that poorly.
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Add … tibilitiesI'm sure there are other issues, but loosing all legacy addons was a large stability issue for users.
I never realized that mozilla was this much out of its depht... When did this happen I wonder... was it when the original founder got yanked out?
Sigh, what's left of mozilla's goodness, is dying fast.
regardless, Nano adblocker and, privacy settings are two firefox addons that need support that are webextension ones.
We will see what happens I suppose, but I am wondering if they will be supported by what will be iceweasel esr 60. Though, what do you mean by UXP has plans to support some WebExt... you sure you don't mean all?
When did this happen I wonder... was it when the original founder got yanked out?
Possibly, but Brave (by some of the original founders that split) is actually worse. It uses pure Chromium with .NET GUI over top, and their own ad network.
I think it started going down hill fast when they removed the ability to embed gecko.
https://lwn.net/Articles/436412/
https://chrislord.net/2016/02/24/the-ca … ble-gecko/
regardless, Nano adblocker and, privacy settings are two firefox addons that need support that are webextension ones.
It seems Nano adblocker is the WebExt rewrite of uBlock Origin? They seem very similar, and we support uBlock Origin in our repository.
what do you mean by UXP has plans to support some WebExt... you sure you don't mean all?
To quote the dev team...
"Experimental support for WebExtensions (in gecko-target mode). Please note that some Mozilla-specific WebExtension APIs are not yet available."
Since we continue to use Gecko rather than Quantum, probably not all features will be supported, but some will be. Also UXP will again allow gecko to be embedded in other applications.
We should not support Mozilla from now on and fork Iceweasel as soon as possible!
About Iceweasel
iceweasel
52.6.1 (64-bit) What's new
Iceweasel is brought to you by Hyperbola, a fully free, stable, secure, simple, lightweight
and long-term support distribution.
Want to help? Make a donation
or get involved!
When did this happen I wonder... was it when the original founder got yanked out?
Possibly, but Brave (by some of the original founders that split) is actually worse. It uses pure Chromium with .NET GUI over top, and their own ad network.
I think it started going down hill fast when they removed the ability to embed gecko.https://lwn.net/Articles/436412/
https://chrislord.net/2016/02/24/the-ca … ble-gecko/regardless, Nano adblocker and, privacy settings are two firefox addons that need support that are webextension ones.
It seems Nano adblocker is the WebExt rewrite of uBlock Origin? They seem very similar, and we support uBlock Origin in our repository.
what do you mean by UXP has plans to support some WebExt... you sure you don't mean all?
To quote the dev team...
"Experimental support for WebExtensions (in gecko-target mode). Please note that some Mozilla-specific WebExtension APIs are not yet available."
Since we continue to use Gecko rather than Quantum, probably not all features will be supported, but some will be. Also UXP will again allow gecko to be embedded in other applications.
nano adblocker is lighter, and it is a way to keep your adblock on no matter what crap is thrown at you.
I haven't found any information on debian planning to use basilisk, can you cite your sources please?
ps, decentraleyes is another addon I will absolutely want along with nano adblocker, noscript privacy badger privacy settings, etc...
I hope you/they have a way to fool firefox addons website into thinking that its at the latest version.
We should not support Mozilla from now on and fork Iceweasel as soon as possible!
About Iceweasel
iceweasel
52.6.1 (64-bit) What's newIceweasel is designed by Hyperbola, a fully free, stable, secure, simple, lightweight
and long-term support distribution.Want to help? Make a donation
or get involved!
Nice thought, but their addons such as noscript for example are invaluable. That addon is very, very needed.
Noscript is from InformAction, not Mozilla. What's the problem?
I haven't found any information on debian planning to use basilisk, can you cite your sources please?
Iceweasel is no longer maintained by Debian. We adopted their patches several years ago to keep Iceweasel going. It was about March 2016 when Debian officially discontinued Iceweasel (branding) of Firefox. They continue to provide stability patches for Firefox, but they are ignoring the freedom issues such as encouraging non-free addons.
ps, decentraleyes is another addon I will absolutely want along with nano adblocker, noscript privacy badger privacy settings, etc...
DecentralEyes has a legacy version that works well for FF52ESR still.
I hope you/they have a way to fool firefox addons website into thinking that its at the latest version.
Although that is possible, the better long-term plan is to provide our own Addons Repository or share it with Basilisk. Mozilla already removed several thousand "legacy" addons which are no longer available in the repository, many of which were very good GPL licensed addons.
Noscript is from InformAction, not Mozilla. What's the problem?
No problem with NoScript that I am aware of, it is a very good addon. They also have a legacy version for ESR.
zapper wrote:I haven't found any information on debian planning to use basilisk, can you cite your sources please?
Iceweasel is no longer maintained by Debian. We adopted their patches several years ago to keep Iceweasel going. It was about March 2016 when Debian officially discontinued Iceweasel (branding) of Firefox. They continue to provide stability patches for Firefox, but they are ignoring the freedom issues such as encouraging non-free addons.
zapper wrote:ps, decentraleyes is another addon I will absolutely want along with nano adblocker, noscript privacy badger privacy settings, etc...
DecentralEyes has a legacy version that works well for FF52ESR still.
zapper wrote:I hope you/they have a way to fool firefox addons website into thinking that its at the latest version.
Although that is possible, the better long-term plan is to provide our own Addons Repository or share it with Basilisk. Mozilla already removed several thousand "legacy" addons which are no longer available in the repository, many of which were very good GPL licensed addons.
Archetyp wrote:Noscript is from InformAction, not Mozilla. What's the problem?
No problem with NoScript that I am aware of, it is a very good addon. They also have a legacy version for ESR.
Noscript 10 is better though than 5 isn't it?
ps, I know debian abandoned iceweasel, and that they ignore freedom issues such as pocket... My thing is, I was talking about firefox and iceweasel etc,
If you think you can make your own addons repository by all means, do so. IF you think you can get people to be interested I mean.
Apparently, Hyperbola IceWeasel will be based on UXP in the future and will be descended directly from Basilisk, but with its own addons repository. Am I interpreting this correctly?
Apparently, Hyperbola IceWeasel will be based on UXP in the future and will be descended directly from Basilisk, but with its own addons repository. Am I interpreting this correctly?
I hope so, and yeah, switching to Basilisk is an awesome idea I mean for the purposes of forking Iceweasel from... xD
Something just occured to me, I thought debian cared about security even if they didn't care about freedom or privacy.
I mean, its odd that they decided on systemd given this, but I was told debian was the closest to security distro for gnu/linux out there.
In essence, I wonder if people rise up will mozilla back off even half way from their idiotic insecure ideas.
Also, I wonder what the future holds... and if a new browser will fight against mozilla in the future because of this.
By this I mean, Will mozilla have competition that even will be a giant for them to compete with.
heh.
Firefox 60 and Firefox 60 ESR Differences
https://www.ghacks.net/2018/05/08/firef … fferences/Tomorrow, the "adsense botnet browser" called Firefox will be release with long-term-support. In fact, is 60% more faster than Firefox 52-ESR.
Whats the Icecat will do? Whats the FSF wiil do? Are FSF will development a browser from scratch?
Ir our case, we have plans to a UXP based Basillisk browser. (We are master-race!)
By the way, and Trisquel, GuixSD, Parabola and other FSF distros? Whats will be the future after 60-ESR release, tomorrow?
I dunno, but I hope and I mean really hope, Basilisk will still support the addons from webextensions. However, I also hope that Basilisk can be based off of firefox esr. But on the other hand beyond that, Noscript and certain other addons are extremely needed. And by the way, I looked at quantam on abrowser, it still has that damn pocket crap even if its not enabled. It just makes me nervous. Perhaps we are better off ditching firefox in the long run...
Palemoon may be the way. Icemoon. A free palemoon browser.
My concern is that light and free browsers like: Xombrero and Midori are undeveloped.
We're running out of options.
Palemoon may be the way. Icemoon. A free palemoon browser.
My concern is that light and free browsers like: Xombrero and Midori are undeveloped.
We're running out of options.
Hyperbola IceWeasel. A free and secure Basilisk web browser. 
More Bad News about Firefox 60 | ESR:
Chngelog:
Mozilla removed the dom.workers.enabled preference. In other words: Workers cannot be disabled anymore
Sites are now able to mine bitcoins in multiple threads even on background!Sponsored stories for some U.S users on New Tab Page
More Ads and more connect to third parties web addressSource: https://www.ghacks.net/2018/05/09/firef … -overview/
Yeah, I officially hate what mozilla has become. I just am afraid certain addons will be out of reach when we switch to a basilisk based iceweasel. Which would be really bad.
Noscript is really very needed. Otherwise, browsers will not be very secure.
I have this strange paranoid feeling that something is going terribly wrong.
pekman wrote:Palemoon may be the way. Icemoon. A free palemoon browser.
My concern is that light and free browsers like: Xombrero and Midori are undeveloped.
We're running out of options.
Hyperbola IceWeasel. A free and secure Basilisk web browser.
But we are orphaned by minimalist options. Xombrero is definitely closed, Midori does not receive updates for at least three years. If you compare performance and resource consumption, you will find that Basilisk is much heavier and slower than Palemoon.
I can't judge that, but in the end it's the Hyperbola developers who decide.
I can't judge that, but in the end it's the Hyperbola developers who decide.
I wonder what tor browser is going to based off of though. Will it be basilisk, or firefox esr...
I think we should do base iceweasel off of the same thing as tor browser. Just my opinion if you know what I mean.
We could surely fix any issues regardless of which way the wind blows so to speak.
I have this strange paranoid feeling that something is going terribly wrong.
I am concerned as well due to legacy addons about to lose support.
Noscript + Firefox esr based iceweasel webext or not > Basilisk based iceweasel with no, noscript
Mozilla seriously needs to understand the hell they are causing by their idiotic webext switch. IT will hurt them long term and that is a fact.
Also, I wonder if there is a way to make them understand that people will leave because of their damn stupid switch. And I wonder if that will convince them they have gone down the wrong path...
But we are orphaned by minimalist options. Xombrero is definitely closed, Midori does not receive updates for at least three years. If you compare performance and resource consumption, you will find that Basilisk is much heavier and slower than Palemoon.
AFAIK Basilisk is a web browser made by the developers of the Pale Moon browser from MoonChild project. For now, we haven't an official release of Iceweasel based on Basilisk (iceweasel-uxp) until Tobin (one of Basilisk/Pale Moon devs) does the initial branding.
However since both projects (Basilisk and Pale Moon) comes from the same project (MoonChild), we will distribute a fully free/privacy/security modified version of Pale Moon for Hyperbola called iceweasel-goanna. To avoid troubles with MoonChild team related to trademarks, we have decided continue using Iceweasel rebranding for both projects to speed up the procedure and minimize the task for Tobin who will handle it because he has a better experience than us and there are remaining trademark issues from Iceweasel rebranding to be solved yet.
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