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Topic: Audacity is going with telemetry within the future?

Hello together,

while doing further research about packages: Audacity got a pull to implement proprietary telemetry. But that's just a short note about the whole story. Starting here with the Muse Group to take the lead within the project itself, here is the link: https://mu.se/muse-products#audacity

Well? And then there is the plan to have telemetry with Google Analytics and Yandex Metrica: https://github.com/audacity/audacity/pull/835

There is a fork done: https://github.com/yonderbread/foss_audacity

So the question is: What to do especially with those projects? The past shows: Those won't stay free and libre. So a good project is going downwards. I won't write much about the reasoning, about the free and libre software being weakening itself be making foul compromises. But in the end? So I tend to throw the official Audacity away and check for the other one. What do you think?

Update on 08.07.2021

As the situation won't clear up for now and the Muse Group started to create more problems I add a list of the forks included here. Most of the earlier mentioned vanished already again. First the reasons for the on-going debate:

Privacy policy which may violate the original project's GPL license
Contributer's License Agreement (CLA) which may violate the same GPL license

Now the concurrent list:

PROMISING

https://github.com/tenacityteam/tenacity

VANISHED

https://github.com/yonderbread/foss_audacity
https://github.com/KXStudio/audacity

QUESTIONABLE

https://github.com/Sneeds-Feed-and-Seed/sneedacity
(Reasoning: Mentioned connection towards 4chan, which is an imageboard and related to many questionable acts full with harassment and hate. Therefore also no need having a "fork" which is later abadoned or seriously "for the fun" without interest and in connection with already mentioned actions!)



Generic comment: For now Audacity will be used in version 2.4.2, which is the version Debian "Bullseye" is also using. So the listing can be used for the future update as I think the same as people in the above discussions and also within this thread here. Even if the Muse Group is reverting their course, the damage is already taken and trust is gone. And here we are for the "4chan-troll-fork", I didn't even realized that already harassment is going on from there but here more to read: https://github.com/audacity/audacity/is … -875251997
Just to say onto this: Sometimes I'm very tired to read about the toxic behaviour from some people on the "global network" and that's no drama, it is a fact. No harassment and no need for any project being onto that! roll

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

2 Reply by zapper (edited by zapper 2021-05-09 03:20:00)

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Re: Audacity is going with telemetry within the future?

I heard about this while browsing mastodon,

If its needed, use the fork, if not, meh... it is a heavy program.

Would hope there would be something lighter available that does the same job and is less compromised and/or bloated.

EDIT: Sadly, I have not found one yet...

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3 Reply by throgh

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Re: Audacity is going with telemetry within the future?

I'll post a more concrete statement within "Free Culture" as I'm very angry about the concrete situation many projects are into. If you find a good, free and libre alternative, please post it within here. smile

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

4 Reply by zapper (edited by zapper 2021-05-09 16:08:26)

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Re: Audacity is going with telemetry within the future?

throgh wrote:

I'll post a more concrete statement within "Free Culture" as I'm very angry about the concrete situation many projects are into. If you find a good, free and libre alternative, please post it within here. smile

Anger sadly doesn't solve the problem, by itself...

that being said, if it motivates you to find a different direction or helps you to change the future in a positive way, then all good.

I have found a few different projects, but they are all bloated like auadacity...

ardour being one of the most bloated. Although, it may not use any crapware, I have no idea yet. it does depend on like 100+ packages though. hmm

Update, rosegarden is the least bloated I have found so far with one caveat,

I am not sure if it is a real alternative yet.

It does some similar things, but never tried it to know how much it does.

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5 Reply by throgh

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Re: Audacity is going with telemetry within the future?

Meant "anger" as part for motivation, not really about staying on that. In general Audacity is the software for just audio-editing, not midi-composing.

So for searching:

Eko

In the end I think the fork will be attractive! smile

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

6 Reply by throgh

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Re: Audacity is going with telemetry within the future?

Possible candidates as fork of Audacity:

https://github.com/yonderbread/foss_audacity
https://github.com/KXStudio/audacity

The new trademark-owner of the project has said that they will add telemetry in one way or another. So it is just something about time: Sooner or later this project will go the way of some others before.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

7 Reply by zapper

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Re: Audacity is going with telemetry within the future?

throgh wrote:

Meant "anger" as part for motivation, not really about staying on that. In general Audacity is the software for just audio-editing, not midi-composing.

So for searching:

Eko

In the end I think the fork will be attractive! smile

My bad, if you mean motivation cool. 

By the way,

snd is the only other alternative I see, unless those forks turn out good.

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8 Reply by throgh

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Re: Audacity is going with telemetry within the future?

For now first: Motivation of course. But also is Audacity long time part of many distributions and operating-systems as audio-editor. So not giving up a good tool, which "trademark" was bought and is not in hands being that much into how sharing of information could work. The best proof is the issue itself and comments being that much toxic and harsh as users made them just count in commits and lines instead of the thoughts and inputs given - I know why I don't give anything about meritocratic groups and organizations.

And it goes further: https://github.com/audacity/audacity/issues/855

To quote:

Is it even possible for a company to acquire a free and open source project licensed under the GPL?
How exactly did Muse Group acquire Audacity?
What rights and power does Muse Group legally have over the Audacity project?
Can Muse Group even legally claim ownership over the project or do they simply own the trademarks to the name and logo?
Who exactly is behind Muse Group; what roles do these people have?
What are Muse Group's visions and goals for Audacity?
How does Muse Group plan on going about putting these goals and visions into practice?
How does Muse Group plan on handling situations where they want a new feature but the community rejects it (see PR 835)?
Are any of the core maintainers and team members of Audacity now on the pay roll of Muse Group?
What is the project father's and core maintainer's role and view of these events?

Well, best guess is to fork and rename the project. Even this will sooner or later become abandonware. But having some company owning the trademark? Not a clear statement? For now I think best way is to wait and set this package back for further research and compilation. Perhaps just taking the version from Hyperbola 0.3.1 - of course with patchsets for stability - or taking the last version being ready in packages from Debian Bullseye before this kind of problems occurred.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

9 Reply by zapper

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Re: Audacity is going with telemetry within the future?

throgh wrote:

For now first: Motivation of course. But also is Audacity long time part of many distributions and operating-systems as audio-editor. So not giving up a good tool, which "trademark" was bought and is not in hands being that much into how sharing of information could work. The best proof is the issue itself and comments being that much toxic and harsh as users made them just count in commits and lines instead of the thoughts and inputs given - I know why I don't give anything about meritocratic groups and organizations.

And it goes further: https://github.com/audacity/audacity/issues/855

To quote:

Is it even possible for a company to acquire a free and open source project licensed under the GPL?
How exactly did Muse Group acquire Audacity?
What rights and power does Muse Group legally have over the Audacity project?
Can Muse Group even legally claim ownership over the project or do they simply own the trademarks to the name and logo?
Who exactly is behind Muse Group; what roles do these people have?
What are Muse Group's visions and goals for Audacity?
How does Muse Group plan on going about putting these goals and visions into practice?
How does Muse Group plan on handling situations where they want a new feature but the community rejects it (see PR 835)?
Are any of the core maintainers and team members of Audacity now on the pay roll of Muse Group?
What is the project father's and core maintainer's role and view of these events?

Well, best guess is to fork and rename the project. Even this will sooner or later become abandonware. But having some company owning the trademark? Not a clear statement? For now I think best way is to wait and set this package back for further research and compilation. Perhaps just taking the version from Hyperbola 0.3.1 - of course with patchsets for stability - or taking the last version being ready in packages from Debian Bullseye before this kind of problems occurred.

Sounds very wise to me what you said here.

I would do that.

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10 Reply by throgh

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Re: Audacity is going with telemetry within the future?

Let's see how we get along: I'll add myself to Audacity for further research. For sure this can be only done when most other packages are up and working. smile

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

11 Reply by throgh

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Re: Audacity is going with telemetry within the future?

Turns out a little bit better: https://github.com/audacity/audacity/discussions/889
Quote incoming:

The behaviour described above for error reporting and update checking would only apply to official “release” versions of Audacity available from our website or GitHub page. In other builds, the error reporting and update checking code will be excluded by default via CMake options.

So for now this issues is solved. I'll keep this topic open for everyone to discuss or pointing out missing information! smile

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

12 Reply by throgh

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Re: Audacity is going with telemetry within the future?

Okay not solved as the Muse Group is making more problems. So keeping an eye out for forks happening sooner or later.
Another link (thanks to biovoid): https://github.com/tenacityteam/tenacity

Seems the typical ignorance and arrogance coming up with the same arguments: "Doing that for the greater good of users", "Doing that for the greater good of the project" and more of the same. No evil plan behind, but the quite the same failures and flaws. For now Hyperbola 0.4 is oriented on 2.4.2 for Audacity, same version as for Debian "Bullseye" for sure. When time comes: Another round for the music to be played, literally. And note also: Even if Muse Group is doing and wanting that, the project won't go any further without the community. So no time for drama, time for facts. smile

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

13 Reply by g4jc

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Re: Audacity is going with telemetry within the future?

There are several forks appearing, we should try to select the best one that is both active and libre.

Here's another: https://github.com/Sneeds-Feed-and-Seed/sneedacity

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Re: Audacity is going with telemetry within the future?

Thanks g4jc. Will add a list within the initial post!
EDIT: Besides the fork mentioned is in relation of 4chan and I think we should keep out those places, especially as being onto "drama" and harassment.

So I'll add also a possible review of the people being onto the fork and their attitude for a real alternative. Please have in mind that this is just a personal review for the moment as I personal hope something like LibreOffice is created out of this and a real fork can be established.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

15 Reply by zapper

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Re: Audacity is going with telemetry within the future?

Yeah, Stay away from 4chan builds, this project is way too precious to be using that. It could risk Hyperbola's future.

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16 Reply by throgh

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Re: Audacity is going with telemetry within the future?

Okay found the corresponding incident now about 4chan and harassment coming up towards others. Here for everyone to read: https://github.com/tenacityteam/tenacity/issues/99

And I'd stay directly towards this: 4chan is really NOTHING we should want having here for any time. When I read through the issue: Hurting someone (physically), make "fun" out of this and more? Enough to say about that. As I've said: Sometimes being very, very, very tired when reading about those dark places (and of course immediately shocked). Disgusting actions and even within that issue everyone can see comments trying to misinterpret or redirecting the threat (example: https://github.com/tenacityteam/tenacit … -875142273, recommendation: just review the profile itself).

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!