276

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

You know: There is no cloud, just other people's computers!

That sentence demonstrates very good the essential problem: The "internet" is of NO solution. And talking about: I think it would be better to cut the rope for different services and so-called remote storage complete instead developing more illusions like "safer encryption". It is for sure an illusion as the data is NOT in reach. Different services like those anti-social platforms brought even more problems. And even Wikipedia has its problems, being not fully free, independent and emancipated for inclusion. Again: Do I think this kind of "internet" should be developed further? No, absolutely not. Building on top from all of that is no solution, only a big problem.

Saving data locally, making mirrors of what is needed and stop trusting anything being there "forever". Emancipation is not working without trust, but not on the "other people's computers". You cannot hope for "next cool development in encryption" all-time. Better to use what is there and not trust into some services. Besides the "internet" is also about much egoism: People want that storage only because of convinience again, not for any further solutions. Just past a day Twitter was bought from another person with interest making that some so-called "place for freedom of speech". We all know what is really meant: Insulting others, do whatever is wanted without some consequences. But there are and will be consequences as there is no freedom without responsibility. Same as with the illusion of remote data stored: There are consequences and no encryption can make it revereted. It is just that: The convinience and egoism going full ahead as long as people are not willing that we all can provide a solution with insights, helping and understanding. With searching for next technical enhancements there won't be any solution, just more of the same.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

277

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

throgh wrote:

You know: There is no cloud, just other people's computers!

That sentence demonstrates very good the essential problem: The "internet" is of NO solution. And talking about: I think it would be better to cut the rope for different services and so-called remote storage complete instead developing more illusions like "safer encryption". It is for sure an illusion as the data is NOT in reach. Different services like those anti-social platforms brought even more problems. And even Wikipedia has its problems, being not fully free, independent and emancipated for inclusion. Again: Do I think this kind of "internet" should be developed further? No, absolutely not. Building on top from all of that is no solution, only a big problem.

Saving data locally, making mirrors of what is needed and stop trusting anything being there "forever". Emancipation is not working without trust, but not on the "other people's computers". You cannot hope for "next cool development in encryption" all-time. Better to use what is there and not trust into some services. Besides the "internet" is also about much egoism: People want that storage only because of convinience again, not for any further solutions. Just past a day Twitter was bought from another person with interest making that some so-called "place for freedom of speech". We all know what is really meant: Insulting others, do whatever is wanted without some consequences. But there are and will be consequences as there is no freedom without responsibility. Same as with the illusion of remote data stored: There are consequences and no encryption can make it revereted. It is just that: The convinience and egoism going full ahead as long as people are not willing that we all can provide a solution with insights, helping and understanding. With searching for next technical enhancements there won't be any solution, just more of the same.

Here is a better idea, push the web back to when it was not dependant on so much corporate crap, aka, maybe prior to 3.0?

Unlikely, but its better than what it is now.

That being said, alot of what you said seems to be true now, I very much hope that the newer generations will do something about these "pigs"

Think animal farm, after snowball is chased off the farm...

HyperbolaBSD: The Future of Secure Libre Lightweight Operating Systems!

278

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Hmm, depends: The story from Orwell wants to teach something more about the sides we choose as we may have a choice. We can choose to be on the egoistic side. But this is for a price as we take the choice of others away. Or we choose way different: A decision for inclusion and using own privileges to get others protected and then out of misery and danger. But this were different times back. The generic to be told is nevertheless the same today: Don't let it come to the point where only revenge is important.

It is strange that also 1984 was found only relevant in some points as the so-called "Big Brother" is decared and used, but not the further lesson coming out. Orwell warned about many things, but most about the point when we loose the basic thoughts of empathy and solidarity. It is the point to answer with Nietzsche:

Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.

So the ignorance is a problem and perhaps we should not forget that all humans were children once. We should preserve the prespective from that in my point of view. Looking at the world with big eyes and discover wonders within an utopian fantasy: Being believable for remembering that!
No one knows hatred from the beginning, no one knows greed and ignorance. We are taught that ways later on and we should remember that those are not important. Building societies onto only that is a failure. Free culture is for me speaking the child's perspective of an ideal picture and to give hands with kindness and in combination with strict, straight values for respect and empathy. Doing harm onto that vaues means also going the opposite way for ignorance. And yes: That means also sometimes to exclude and be very hard onto those parts, but without any further need to go after either individuals or groups.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

279

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

throgh wrote:

Hmm, depends: The story from Orwell wants to teach something more about the sides we choose as we may have a choice. We can choose to be on the egoistic side. But this is for a price as we take the choice of others away. Or we choose way different: A decision for inclusion and using own privileges to get others protected and then out of misery and danger. But this were different times back. The generic to be told is nevertheless the same today: Don't let it come to the point where only revenge is important.

It is strange that also 1984 was found only relevant in some points as the so-called "Big Brother" is decared and used, but not the further lesson coming out. Orwell warned about many things, but most about the point when we loose the basic thoughts of empathy and solidarity. It is the point to answer with Nietzsche:

Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.

So the ignorance is a problem and perhaps we should not forget that all humans were children once. We should preserve the prespective from that in my point of view. Looking at the world with big eyes and discover wonders within an utopian fantasy: Being believable for remembering that!
No one knows hatred from the beginning, no one knows greed and ignorance. We are taught that ways later on and we should remember that those are not important. Building societies onto only that is a failure. Free culture is for me speaking the child's perspective of an ideal picture and to give hands with kindness and in combination with strict, straight values for respect and empathy. Doing harm onto that vaues means also going the opposite way for ignorance. And yes: That means also sometimes to exclude and be very hard onto those parts, but without any further need to go after either individuals or groups.

Just one problem with not chasing off the "pigs"

They still need to be dealt with one way or another, otherwise, they will deal with us it seems... just judging by history...

When you deal with them, you don't need to kill them but they do need to be stripped off their power to be in government. Aka, those who participated in such atrocities, etc...

Of course, redemption is possible for some probably, but you kind of need to have to have people show them to have changed prior... and not just a few mind you, but the multitude at large, meaning like a massive amount of people. Btw, that is yet another reason, I dislike them, they have forgotten their child side, well... the better part of their child side and in some cases, some never had one to begin with...
Why else did they ruin the way television operated, declawing the fairness doctorine so that it had very little power, meaning you didn't have to provide a different side from each side as a law...  this is why fox news began to get powerful in America... I have strong words for the person who did this, but I will just by call him by name: Ronald Reagan...

Basically, the more power that censorship has over different outlets, the more they will keep pushing till they get everything they think they want.

There is  a character in starcraft called Mengsk, who while fighting monsters becomes one himself prior to the brood war expansion

So yes, what you say is true,  regarding being careful not to become the abyss yourself while fighting the abyss...

And obviously darth vader as well, etc, etc...

Long story short though,  with each step you allow them to take, without some kind of punishment, you move closer towards surrendering to them, whether people know it or not...

Deportation and exectuion should be if at all absolute last resort type judgments, that being said, until the police are defanged from situations that do not require cops, aka, things that can be settled peacefully without anyone with a gun who could potentially make things massively worse, then one of three things will happen, the cops do insane stuff and punish the innocent, or you have them tried for their crimes and if these things don't happen, a civil war or worse is beyomd the hill...
That being said, mental institutions need to be used way more to deal with these violent extremists.
Obviously not asylum level ones, supposedly, those are torture, which I had not previously known...

But Reagan getting rid of  as much of them as he could, aka... mental health stuff as possible, was like going from one extreme to the other...

Although at this point, it makes more sense than ever before...

It seems like they know they can manipulate these people very easily into voting for them, so yeah... good strategy for them albeit mega evil, but with one flaw, they overlooked:

The more you divide a country, this way, the more likely the country will either A:  revolt on you and try to get rid of you, etc...

or B: they will weaken the country to the point, that other countries can deal with them and be removed that way.

So one way or another, evil can very often destroy itself if not careful... however it only happens this way if, evil's own action's backfire on them, which doesn't happen by good people being reckless.

It happens when they go beyond a specific point, that makes everyone unwilling to take it lying down any longer, or they basically self-destruct...

With everything being said, I would rather the majority of them change their evil ways and the ones manipulating them be dealt with in some way, even if it means the unthinkable...

I would very much prefer though that they be put in prison for what they did and obviously a sentence equal to their crimes and one that also has a robin hood effect on the money they stole.

Also, btw, you may not have heard of black wall street, some black families were rich at one point, but they were killed, their wealth stolen and obviously never returned, etc...

To this day, their families have still not recieved what was stolen back yet, etc...

So, yeah...

I very much think in some cases their crimes demand harsher punishments than what you may think.

Especially, because they are still doing the same crap to this day.

As a rule of thumb, justice has to be firm yet not cruel.

At this point, a rare situation may have happened that causes this rule to need to broken though, in my opinion...

If black people tried to start an insurrection on janurary 6th, they'd be mowed down and blood everywhere.

Long story short, pick a lane...

if you cannot punish people of similar races the same, get the bleep out of our government and go to some country that has dictatorship already, since most people don't want this in a free society.

Ironic given USA has had racism for an extremely long time, I know...

But... yeah, if it wasn't free before, it is bordering on falling into fascism now...

HyperbolaBSD: The Future of Secure Libre Lightweight Operating Systems!

280

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

I would begin then with another quote:

You cannot fight some declared evil without becoming its next descendant, when you are not reflecting yourself.

The point being about that is our all decision. Democratic values are very, very sensible and they are very harmed even now while we are talking, for sure. The generic problem is to recognize ignorance. And yes, the word is like a red blinking light here in this thread.

zapper wrote:

Just one problem with not chasing off the "pigs"

They are the same human as you and me. That's the reasoning of the story behind "Animal Farm": The roles and their understanding. I think it is better to break through that roleset and completely try to remove it. That's the reasoning behind a statment like "No borders, no countries." as those borders are also in our heads and there is so much more coming: Mentioned before no one has an understanding of hatred right from the beginning. It is part of our social construct to learn that and the mechanisms behind. Hate is marked as the opposite of love and therefore one of the extreme emotions we have as beings. Should we hate? Not at all. But what to do with the mechanism we have learned and how can we overcome that? Because that's the essential question. For me answering: Better to describe and criticize the point being instead of individuals. Better to warn for problems in society, always be aware about dangers going on, risks on the move like groups of people against democratic values. Sometimes they don't even recognize that and it would be the easiest way. Most not. But there are so many stories and warnings also with the essential question: Who is watching the watchers? So whenever I have that question in mind I should remind myself also that I can describe and watch, but I'm not alone and that is what we two are doing here: We are in a discussion. The essential key element we need even more on our nice planet.

zapper wrote:

Also, btw, you may not have heard of black wall street, some black families were rich at one point, but they were killed, their wealth stolen and obviously never returned, etc...

To this day, their families have still not recieved what was stolen back yet, etc...

There is the point: One SORRY is never enough for all the cruel deeds and harm done. I know that those in beginning of the quote are only examples, but why not completely removing the "wall street" instead of creating new ones? Making people even, that what we all are right from the beginning and that what we always will be. See, the point about fascism being that hard to be recognized is: There is so much being mixed into. It is a pure right ideology in the making, but never standing still and the key element to go against its movement is the democratic discussion. Recognize problems, harsh thoughts and more. Therefore the quote from the beginning, therefore all the postings before. Criticism is always needed, but this alone is hard enough when being rejected. And our global society is not aware of the problems, rejecting already. When we underline criticism with comparisons from literature, that's one point. But another using ironic names or stating comparisons like "pigs" always. The meant criticism is not only ignored, it is than used as example why no need to be listened. The individual, the group or others go than more with a bitter taste, but not without recognizing the problems and explanations. They are just left there. Next time the criticism will be even more harsh and hard, to be repeated as long as possible leaving in enedless circles. Breaking through only with self reflection, explanations or going more into the abyss mentioned. Ignorance is not only there, it is also learned: Either from the beginning or through those vicious circles.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

281

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

To be honest, it is getting towards the point of no return already as far as the climate is concerned, etc, etc...

People are loco, right now.

HyperbolaBSD: The Future of Secure Libre Lightweight Operating Systems!

282

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Hmm, then let's have this thread here lighten up. smile By means: Always have a slight candle glowing whenever possible and so you are invited the same to share thoughts, discuss and reflect as everyone else here for being believable. As sometimes we need to believe in ourself for a better tomorrow. Even as Elon Musk bought Twitter for now and people are right again onto selecting other ways: The question is like before ... do we really need those platforms like Twitter or Mastodon? Or is the more essential question: Was our way to communicate destroyed long before? By reducing information far beyond being full for sense. By concentrating either the data on one platform or having the data shared between different instances. Either way: We have lost control and nevertheless democratic participation is needed more than ever before.

As you have noted: Going back for a step further is better. wink
The "absolute freedom of speech" as Elon Musk is now spreading for his so-called plans will have people surpressed even more, when they have no voice and never had before, because they were ignored. Only hearing out the loudest and harshest voices is a way for being cruel, not for freedom. I hope the people will see that one day, before it is too late.

And to all the people out there calling for "freedom" and "free speech": Learn first your own part about responsibility. You cannot open the box of pandora and afterwards being surprised about the outcome. Reflect your own privileges and use wise for protecting others, not only yourself.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

283

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

And as a reminder for all people out there stating the so-called "alternatives" like micro- or macro-blogging made decentralized: Neither Diaspora nor Mastodon are clear and possible platforms. There are enough examples full with racism, sexism, ableism, antisemitism or even pure fascism. And most time administrators of instances neither cares nor do something for real about it. You think the centralized platforms are a problem, dear reader? Think again: There is no possible alternative as the decentralized are the same, even worse in some cases.

Yes, Hyperbola has an account, but nevertheless: Personally I would prefer not having any relation. When people want information, they can come here and take part, be active and not clicking on some virtual marks for "like". Same mechanisms, not more and not of any help for communication.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

284

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Simplified and shortened messages are just more of the same known paradigm: They are marketing and most the time with very bad consequences. So first things first here right now for that posting: You are not breaking any kind of so-called chains with any GNU/Linux. Even though many of them are more of the known convinience and just to count some: Mixing free and clear non-free packages together? No clear licenses called within the packages distributed? Making foul compromises for having the users not to choose what they want to install or not?

So you are changing not for sure something when you go out for pragmatic choices. Instead you are following foul marketing with shortened and simplified phrases. Nothing for being believable! Using the chance again to underline the difference: Mastodon told once being a difference and using a different take. But is there a real chance? Well, in the end the clear answer is just NO. As long as that is marked as kind of hobby or collecting experiences with administration people will stick towards values of free culture at all. But guess what: There are enough people now calling out for companies taking part and going further. So either this is just another failed wave of people coming by for a short visit or that kind of chance for real social interaction without pure materialism and capitalism is long forgotten at this point. You see here also: We will never solve social problems throughout technology. Not possible at all and same way as Linux (without GNU) other projects are going to fail because we humans have not learned that economy and numbers are not of highest value and greed is only destroying instead of creating. But we'll see about that all soon enough and for the moment people are counting again their "followers" on Mastodon! Brave new world of the copycat-services, not within technology-stack but within people not understanding they will ruin everything without learning or thinking, just taking their whole learned nonsense from one service to another and so the vicious circle will never end.

And what is going on the platforms? Daily as usual: People taking screenshots, fingerpointing at each other and while that is going further, others embrace hatred and pure cruel harassment, driving the global society towards more. Congratulations, a brave new world. Perhaps reading Aldous Huxley again would help?

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

285

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Be aware about the coming development especially from the false promise of the so-called "Web 3.0". First things first: There is nothing like trustlessness! If you don't trust within others, well okay. But our whole social living is build upon trust per definition. So trust is not a bug like the growing paranoia within "Web 3.0" is claiming, it is a feature. It is a feature where we have build upon structures around: You don't want to trust others giving your hardware-specifications to them? Okay, that's your decision. But why do you trust even the basic code or a package being provided on top of that code? How can you be sure it was really build from that code? You see: There is nothing wrong about being critical, but there is for sure very much wrong just believing into some narratives without roots into our reality. We need to trust more into each other, but we also need to act on top of facts and science. Stop calling out for more "progress" without any sense or the belief into some construct like "Web 3.0". Being believable is also about trust and not about toxic promises!

If you think you need full trustlessness, if you want to build such systems, you will see very fast that there will be more than that. Not only mistrust, as people act even more just within egoistic perspectives. You cannot build any social skill, any kind of social interaction on top of that. We will end therefore within dystopian perspectives, when we follow that course for sure. So better stay away from that, even from that ideas or talking points. There is nothing to reach within: Bringing the people together? With "mistrust"? Come on! You don't believe me? Well, let's look on some notes of the "Web 3.0"-people around:

  • decentralized

  • transparent

  • no censorship

  • my data is owned by me

  • selfhosting

You see those points within the list are for sure the one being part of many other lists in one form or another. We all need to step up and get down that upcoming narrative using those points, better to call that misuse. And they are for sure not used in the correct way, instead being part of false and toxic promises. We should not give up our will to create those points and fill them. It seems the opposite for now: Full grown up and strange ideas lost in some spaces, with some belief any kind of "market is doing the right thing". Well? We should all know better. There no "market" doing anything and the "state" being the so-called enemy is where? On the ground reasoning: This would be a "we" and not someone else when talking about the base idea. So you think it is better to get away and start again? Life is not a game. And there is a point within any kind meaning responsibility. We cannot get away from our responsibility!

So the conclusion is Web.next = Web. Easy as that and complex at the same time. Repair it, go further and make it a better place. Being open and free for all, for participation and inclusion. Not exclusion as any "Come let's build a new one!" is going for. Yes, free and libre soft- and hardware can be done within forks. But we have only ONE society living together, we have ONE planet to live onto. If we go for and ruin all of that, we ruin everything. We need a free culture and ideas, not new projects for strange libertarian nonsense going at full speed against the wall with false narratives.

You want some ideas? Well call it for:

  • together for empathy

  • together against lies and harassments

  • together with ideas and more lightweight approaches

It is not that you will find the "full and final solution" right here. It depends on all of us to question that and not accepting it because it sounds so "nice". wink
Technical emancipation is one key-element for all of that, but there is more: Why do you think it is "okay" going further with "Copyright" instead of "Copyleft"? Free culture cannot persist without the right to copy and modify, including for sure the respect for each other - in that mode please don't call for some "meme-culture" as it is for sure not correct to make fun of stills taken from any video where you have some expressions of people or figures setting them in any context someone wants (call it therefore NOT "free culture" and only harassment). Your device, your data and your rules. For sure but not with ignoring social skills.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

286

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

What is the purpose of information technology? Included are hard- and software. Making it easier all along for people to get on information? Yes, sure. But also to be in full control HOW to get and save information. Seriously to tell: We have missed the point right now and personally I am ashamed that IT (shortform for "information technology") has caused so much damage that it looks like being beyond to repair. What is the meaning of this?

First things first: The internet was a nice tryout but is now more or less just a corporate network. The known developments like "cryptocurrencies" or "decentralized platforms" are nothing more than a big lie and betrayal of ourselves. What do we want to build on top? Systems consuming so much more energy that they cause more harm onto our environment and climate? And please: Stop using excuses for "cryptocurrencies". There is enough approval that those are of no use at all. You want a better future for all beings on earth? Think other ways not those. The communities within "cryptocurrencies" being approved of absolutely toxic and harmful towards different groups of beings, making disgusting jokes out of people, insulting them or even go further with harassment.

The global network was a nice tryout for independent and free thoughts once but corporate thoughts and more centralization than ever before destroyed that to the grounds. We have created our own dystopian vision of this now within the last years. It is not all alone some "evil masterplan". It is just that: We have missed the point. People did not care enough for free hard- and software.

Only a free and libre system could provide the first step toward technical emancipation. Not all alone the "internet" or free information-structures. But this point is also missed and messed up: People  acted and act careless for dependencies and even now "Linux" is going also beyond more ignoring essential problems: Rust and licensing? Unfree and closed firmware-blobs? Unfree platforms being part of essential desktop-environments and packages.

When you enter the global network with the interest to be active for "free and libre culture" you will for sure get into the spheres where others tell you Google, Amazon, Microsoft  and / or Apple have damaged and ruined everything. Surprise: They did not. They got the access to do that from all of us and by intention. Reasoning? Well, different ones. Some told "they have nothing to hide", others could not care less about as "they are not harmed directly". So many false reasonings with so less imagery for the whole damage. You think democratic always existed and can defend their existence on their own? You should see: Those values don't vanish directly, they do it slowly, step by step.

So in the end we all ruined the global network: With our selfish actions, with our attitude towards convinience, with all included. But we could do it the other way around. Instead of thinking for false activism: Engage in projects like Hyperbola. Try to embrace technical emancipation. Yes, there is time to be used for learning. But in th end? You can support and help, you are able to support your points and help others to get there also. The mobile devices are of no usage because they are no solution and will never be free. And modern hardware? Going the same way as "golden cage" because of all the mentioned points before. The so-called easy "applications", online platforms and online-shops? Same as how many parts we want to ruin more? It is all connected with our convinience, our way to get data and information right ahead - with a payment also now more. And no: Streaming is also the same included. Paying for nothing, renting just a bit of time and others decide what is available and what not? How long do you think until that concept will be everywhere as many rent even "software" (software as a service) or rent some account to have access to gaming and get locked when renting is over. Software and information transported has to be free, has to be open and transparent. For all to learn. Otherwise this is just a "corporate progress", but not for the democractic society. And capitalism will use everything to get even more "profit", also fascists ideologies, so don't fool yourself with "I have nothing to do with that". I have, you have and we all have for being believable. And remember: Stop running behind cheap lies like "Open-source builds better business" as "business" never understand values like ethics or human rights. It is just about "profit", nothing more and nothing less.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!