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We are very pleased and happy to announce the newest release of Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre with v0.4.4.
See our official news for further details.
HyperForum → Desktop → What web browser do you use?
I admit that it is getting harder to function on the desktop.
More and more pages do not want to display.
I use iceweasel but it's hard, Iceape is practically the same. (e.g. recently Protonmail has stopped working)
Badwolf displays more pages, but it lacks a lot of functionality.
So what browser do you use?
A webbrowser should display and render HTML-scripted webpages, nothing more. So in fact the same: Iceweasel-UXP foremost, Iceape-UXP and Bad Wolf. Sufficient so far and if the "network" is going more crazy as it is today, I will stop using even more. I do not need a "multimedia-central" with even more dependencies on my system.
You are right, but it leads to a blind street, an operating system with a working desktop, must have an efficient browser.
I just suggest that it could be useful to refresh iceweasel.
That is not that easy as it sounds: First of all the UXP-framework is not building on 32bit as they use a very inefficient and memory-consuming build-system and second no UXP-application is here at Hyperbola done directly by us. So Luke can only help here: https://pagure.io/iceweasel-uxp
Furthermore the more newer version, the more possible problems go into the package for the webbrowser. Hyperbola is a minimalist system and therefore we would even go that far to remove a package before its dependencies go out of hands. That leaves a functional and efficient system and that is our goal.
For Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre there is no timeline at this current moment to upgrade the UXP-applications. for HyperbolaBSD there is porting in the making. But again: 32bit is not that easy. And that shows how inefficent and respectless some applications and projects act today - relied towards UXP and Mozilla in generic also for their Rust-effort.
An operating-system must have to work in the meanings of the user and in the hands of the user, this is excluding a webbrowser when it is a high security-risk and not efficient fullfilling only the basics: Rendering HTML-pages, as said not more. A webbrowser is an optional application. But if the community has an idea to update UXP (32bit / 64bit) or some other solution? Exactly that is now the time after 0.4.3.
Advice if anyone uses any XUL based web browser, add modify http response and put these filters in the filter fox:
[["/^/",["/^\\/assets\\/browser-detect-/",["/.*/g",""]],["/^\\/assets\\/discourse-[0-9a-f]{4}/",["(.d-modal-legacy\"","(.d-modal-legacy)\"","document.execCommand(\"insertText\",!1,","this._textarea.setRangeText("]]]]
and then check off enable.
Otherwise some websites will be absolutely obnoxious. 
I use Links -g and either "offpunk" or cgmnlm for Gemini with a proxy (gemini://gemi.dev) to read some news sites.
For the iceweasel-uxp building issue, did you try using clang to build it instead of gcc? It will use far less RAM. Also, you can enable, for instance, a compressed GB of RAM with ZRAM.
It woks well in my 2GB netbook:
doas modprobe zram
doas zramctl --find --size 1024M
doas mkswap /dev/zram0
doas swapon -p 9999 /dev/zram0That's a nice tipp, anthk.
Thanks, I will speak with the team about so we can perhaps update more easy. 
I use luakit, as it has decent support for mouseless browsing, which is paramount for me.
Iceweasel-UXP and especially Badwolf lack a lot in that department.
I think we should differentiate between sites we use voluntary and sites we have to use.
In the first case netsurf, dillo and UXP are fine.
In the second case, I have to deal with the administration or banks. There I have to use UXP, in the best case.
Ps: the panorama of web browsers is getting terrible. After the deal of Firefox with Facebook and other mostly based on Google-Chrome, they will push the standards quiet a lot. https://www.osnews.com/story/140861/moz … vertising/
It is foremost clear: The "internet" is broken to its boundaries. And there is in fact no real turning back. Hyperbola will work as long as there a transportation throughout HTTP / HTTPS / FTP and those protocols are the very basic. About webbrowsers in general: Their elementary task is to show text and perhaps render images at best. The rest was forced into this and made as already said the very big problem of security risks and attack vectors. So in fact Hyperbola do not really care very much about "more modern" webbrowsers and this is a point we stay on. UXP surely, but as newer releases have lost their compatibility towards 32bit, we also do not see a further roadmap for the moment and keep them patched and working as long as even possible.
If users want "more modern webbrowsers" (generally said): Hyperbola is not the system to go. We do not support DRM-mechanics, JavaScripts-trickery and more. We have no interest in doing so.
Their elementary task is to show text and perhaps render images at best.
Personally, I only have to read newspapers with a web browser, I don't care. Apart from propaganda and Newspeak*, there's nothing else. I need to open the website of my bank, the city hall, the tax office, book a flight, etc., so I don't understand your point of view.
*1984
Simple to say: There are surely services chosen out of need or convinience - as mentioned banking, perhaps tax office. And there are services enforcing only more digitization without any need. The point to state is that there is no point for free software within all of this, let alone of the needed dynamic interactions on the websites growing, more JavaScript, more security-holes. The point of view is the simple admit that Hyperbola is not orienting on this. A secure, small system is the point. When there are possible webbrowser-alternatives? Okay. When there are not without dbus and other bloated frameworks? Well, then our point stands. Perhaps there are people interested in porting software? Perhaps not. But our main task is the core system and further extra applications around, not on-going patching because of the next severe security-issues of any webbrowser.
We keep our packages exactly out of this reasoning as small as possible within their dependency-trees. And we keep therefore exactly problematic and Linux-only frameworks outside. So-called modern webbrowsing is based on the tremendous awaitment for more JavaScript and severe insecure interfaces, that is not the way Hyperbola is following. A webbrowser is per definition for rendering HTML-based data, that is text, some basic CSS and some images. That's all of it. When the computer is running high in resources, if you open some websites ... then something is surely wrong while without doing that the system is running absolutely fine. The more interaction is included, the more errors and security-vectors are there. Including webbrowsers allowing such is the opposite for a secure system.
So the final question is not "1984" and instead something more in between the dark, sinister dystopia of "1984" and the oppression of "Brave New World". As we let this happen, willingly. The question is not: Is this done to us without knowledge, but we let this happen with knowledge.
So-called modern webbrowsing is based on the tremendous awaitment for more JavaScript and severe insecure interfaces, that is not the way Hyperbola is following.
What you write is absolutely understandable and true. I have been working with free operating systems for many years and it has been relatively easy to find hardware that allows the installation of these OS that include and propose only free software. Meanwhile, using web pages, increasingly full of non-free javascript, becomes an impossible task for the free software philosophy. I realize this and I think that it will become more and more an obstacle for work or daily life for those people who refuse to use proprietary software.
OT
It is incredible how Orwell wrote 1984 thinking of the USSR and in the end he drew exactly the EU of today.
The idea of the EU itself is a fine one, the problem is: Even the best idea can be drawn in the wrong way and so we see it also with free, libre software failing to address nowadays issues and failing also to address the people or even the other way around as the people are failing also to recognize that they can design their own process. That's the problem with the stories of Orwell or Huxley (Brave New World). They described a generic warning and now we can even multiply them on different ways. Also about what I have written earlier: The problem is not only the current one with how software is built and used, how computers are designed and "owned". The problem is the outcome for the future, where I can now even point on the "Dune"-books from Frank Herbert: Computers are generic banned because over ten thousand years before the events of the first Dune novel, humanity had relinquished its freedom and right to live to "Artificial Intelligence" or "Thinking Machines", as they were called in the saga.
We could do different, we could use good ideas for the better. But the problem is: For the moment we fail and therefore the best we could do is to warn. Perhaps the warnings are heard and some others stop or orient different?
I take this point even further and forward here as this wallpaper was exactly designed with such outcome back in mind: https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic … 8264#p8264
Well, in the end it is not that there were no warnings: They are there on multiple ways even. The problem is to recognize the issue and stopping for a moment, therefore coming to other results being without harm or perhaps lesser harmful. But therefore we would need to remember more individuals that they have a choice, freedom of choice. And Orwell did his own way to question authoritarian ideas within soviet communism, while keeping the generic idea different. But for this we would need a complete different way of ourself as we as human beings do not work the way Marx theoretical described it. The stalinism resulting itself was and is a complete totalitarian ideology. So Orwell himself gave a pattern for all people to question their idea of working with facts and question authority, while Huxley did this on a different level to question "progress" and "progression", "sociel hierarchy" itself. With this lasting I give a recommendation for reading Brave New World towards everyone interested. To note in general that we as a whole, as mankind, are not very good to recognize the outcome of our decisions and ideas, especially not as there were also enough warnings from scientists, political analysts, politicians with a more reasonable orientation, from books, movies, series, artists and so many / much more.
Regarding ideas and missing will to reflect: We have written a long article about the problem here.
Also to add: We were warned about many platforms, even more people decided nevertheless that risks of using those (Facebook, Twitter / X, Instagram etc.) are minor and to be ignored. Copying the failed mechanism of "attention"-debates (nothing else is in fact there to be seen) is same way not helpful: Diaspora, GNU Social, Hubzilla, Mastodon and more. We were not ready, we are not ready and will not be also the same: It is all about "attention", the more extreme, the more exaggerated and hateful, the better for any kind of algorithm to lift forward these postings. This was all said already, all known. And people ignore it nevertheless, thinking they could only hold against this with "good intentions". No, there is nothing to do except pull the trigger and shutdown all of those "Web 2.0"-platforms, including YouTube also. All good and helpful data and information could be saved and transferred into something different, free to be downloaded for everyone. And yes, this is utopian same way, only another warning. With this I close this thread also: We won't find any solution here for a better webbrowser and I can only leave an invitation for all interested readers. If there is some movement to develop something different? Or another good project running on BSD around? Leave a note, especially if you are interested to package and port this. As of now: Everything else is said and if there is interest to create and open another thread, please feel free doing so ... also about how "you" use software like luakit for example when people have interest. There is nothing false to share information and leave it for others to do something and more with it.
HyperForum → Desktop → What web browser do you use?
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