76 (edited by throgh 2020-01-03 00:42:11)

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

About code of conduct: You think those are not helping and it is needed to speak out some truth? Okay, got the challenge. How about trying to discuss about different viewpoints instead doing harassment again some projects got in the past? Especially the kernel-development of Linux got a long list of harsh and insulting language, toxic to the roots itself. Ah, you think this is about YOUR freedom of speech? Okay, and what about the freedom of speech of the person you had insulted? How about the rights and dignity? Why not exactly trying to speak up?

You think a code of conduct is censorship? Think again: This situation resulted within the fact that there was exactly mobbing, sexism, racism and more. There you have one special point mentioned here as politics. Free, libre soft- and hardware should be about inclusion, not exclusion. So while you speak about this you should also respect this integral component at all. And what about meritocracy enough projects had or even have while I'm writing these lines here? Just because somebody seems to be absolute needed for one project or the core components does not make the person absolutely untouchable. Even more the phrase who is doing is always right couldn't be more showing an ugly face of major problems being unsolved until today within the global community of free software and culture. There are many options: Stop talking about "freedom of speech" while marginalizing people suffering even under harassment of society and being excluded from the majority or being literally hunted by hating persons / groups. You want freedom respected? Don't get it wrong as hatred is not a concrete point of view and prejudices cannot help to build further on top of this as the resulting "community" is just more of the known harassment. You think again code of conduct is the wrong way? Okay, give it a proof and stand by the side of marginalized beings, give them support. You don't want to do that? Okay, exactly then you give approval about your point being is not really based on real facts and instead about your own sightings and emotions as you had not to suffer under marginalization (good for you), but you want therefore others to stay into drawers they were put into before by society, just to be some kind of silent and endure more harassment? Democracy is just not a cheap phrase but more a high valuable right, which we have to defend every day again and that is done throughout reflections not just some articles or shoutings, not throughout insults or harsh wordings. This is done by using rational arguments and trying to understand the suffering, being empathic.

And exactly than there is no further need for such a ruleset as a meritocracy is just built on top of prejudices and authoritarian perspective. Everything else is just more of lip services. And I hope nobody has to suffer under the same harassment people had before and because of this different possible versions of a code of conduct were created. I hope also those are just needed for a short amount of time. In my idealistic view this could be some solution, but I'm also aware about the harsh reality where one hatred is just replaced by another one. But you cannot defend fire with fire here as giving people exactly their chance getting out of those drawers some majority and prejudices had put them into before.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

77

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

throgh wrote:

Gentoo is heading slowly but steady towards systemd

Could you please say something more about this??

78 (edited by throgh 2020-01-03 17:15:18)

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Of course: As systemd was never about freedom of choice - absolutely clear when looking onto the included services and the whole direction this project is heading onto - any integration results within a further reduction onto others, meaning there other INIT- and service-frameworks. The sentence I have written is a direct reaction and subject of interpretation from the known coming up and until now integrated features into systemd. And let's be honest: There is no time to cheer up for Debian after their so-called resolution. Nothing has been reached and the team around the project systemd is running forward but without looking after other projects like OpenRC, runit, s6 or shepherd. They just ignore most criticism being in their point of view ideological. Just a quick view onto the wiki-entry for systemd from Gentoo shows how deep you have to modify the system in regards for using this so-called management-framework or better to be called bloatware. We are not talking about a bunch of configuration-files back then and the course is set: Using systemd means reducing the freedom of choice afterwards as you have also to do much work getting away from this.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

79 (edited by throgh 2020-01-03 17:42:38)

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Well, another problem is trying to reach a real inclusive community. What do you do with harassment? Either you accept participants within a community, who have done and will do again hassments against others leading to marginalized people being even more out of safe spaces and put into drawers, or you talk to each other and search for a solution. Yes, this solution can also end with an exclusion of people, who don't want to accept inclusion and respect for each other. Remembering therefore to the social contract:

All of Hyperbola community are to respect the ethics of freedom and free software and are demanded to show the deepest respect among themselves. Under no circumstances discriminate against people based on age, gender, sex, sexual orientation, disability, religion, ideology, ideas, social class, nationality, race, intelligence, or any analogous grounds. Hyperbola encourages freedom of speech. However, do not curse or use offensive language while debating within the Hyperbola community. Do not under any circumstances attack, bully, stalk, or harass any individual (the personal turn) or a certain group.

And trying to defame others following clear principles is also one major problem these days because some just see their own freedom and not respect the one of others, as there is no further difference. False comparisons are more of the same smear wording we had in the past: People naming problems within projects and "free culture" generally are just handled like a bird fouling its own nest. That's disgusting and more about the all known paradigm using politics for the very own part named ignorance and arrogance! And yes: I have a concrete example from different websites again but I won't share it as this thread is not about sharing exclusive links, more about a discussion of perspectives and perhaps also a collection of possible tipps getting towards a real community caring about each other. wink Just the notes: Reading about comparisons to doctors don't swearing the "Hippocratic Oath" is very much about smear wordings. Where is the harm if you exclude oppressing and abusive behaviour? Exactly that: You make a point when positioning against it. And facing the fact that be excellent to each other does not help in those situations.

Believe me or not: I had it in the past also. Being attacked, excluded and insulted because of my sugar disease. That's is the pure definition of toxic, oppressive behaviour. And you won't solve anything by ignoring it, again and again!
Free software and free culture is about beings, so we have to deal with different perspectives and talk about them. But we should also draw a line about what is acceptable and what is not. Racism, sexism, ableism and many more for example are nothing more than systematic oppression and pure hatred! Being believable is including the position against systematic oppression also while we are talking about freedom of speech does not include being free of criticism and trying to marginalize the marginalized beings is even more of the same old, but really tragic story our history is full with. Help others to get out of drawers the majority had put them into, getting also more people to understand not to repeat such a behaviour. This won't solve everything but it is another step forward towards freedom and emancipation of everyone.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

80

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

throgh wrote:

Of course: As systemd was never about freedom of choice - absolutely clear when looking onto the included services and the whole direction this project is heading onto - any integration results within a further reduction onto others, meaning there other INIT- and service-frameworks. The sentence I have written is a direct reaction and subject of interpretation from the known coming up and until now integrated features into systemd. And let's be honest: There is no time to cheer up for Debian after their so-called resolution. Nothing has been reached and the team around the project systemd is running forward but without looking after other projects like OpenRC, runit, s6 or shepherd. They just ignore most criticism being in their point of view ideological. Just a quick view onto the wiki-entry for systemd from Gentoo shows how deep you have to modify the system in regards for using this so-called management-framework or better to be called bloatware. We are not talking about a bunch of configuration-files back then and the course is set: Using systemd means reducing the freedom of choice afterwards as you have also to do much work getting away from this.

Where is it about the thing Gentoo becomes systemd thing because you seem to mean that like Gentoo is slowly adapting systemd as the only init system for them to replace openRC... i asked people on #gentoo irc if it's true and they all told me like it is unlikely to happen... It is what i understood from your statement :-P

I have got Gentoo installed on the HDD... Well, KDE-Meta took about 20 hours to compile on libreboot T500 that i use, now today at night i started compiling Falkon Web Browser i started at 2am when i woke up at 11am the progress of compiling was about 60%. It's crazy!!! So i told them on irc about this and somebody wrote me that using Gentoo on this laptop which is the libreboot is unpracticeable.
So it's a shame because i wanted to try Gentoo to learn new things... But anyways i have been advised trying Slackware as well, as it is non-systemd distribution

81 (edited by throgh 2020-01-04 13:45:34)

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Well, thanks for the feedback but I think otherwise about. As written most within the postings: It is my personal conclusion and I have not the ultimate ratio or better answer. Would be not interesting otherwise! wink And of couse: Better getting the proof of being "wrong" with the personal conclusions. But my experience told me otherwise around. Yes, people on the IRC tell you many things but even though the possibility of systemd integrated within the portages has some conclusions into otherwise they could have also started to be into INIT-freedom instead, so the question is just answered for this moment and that has nothing to say about the future from my point of view. While I dont know if the plans of Hyperbola getting more concrete regarding s6 and shepherd for example, better to have clear principles. OpenRC is coming up from the developers of Gentoo and that's good though. But the point is: How long until there is no further interest on OpenRC because it is too much time investing for further development and upholding more about systemd? Remember: This service-framework got a big sponsor behind and therefore big interests. Or has anyone seen the team behind systemd asking for support and donations? I didn't but instead there is seen this: Take it, it is free! Such a big monolithic bloatware systemd has become and it won't stop. wink Gentoo has therefore also enough proprietary portages for a possible installation and for being not believable to "defend" and stand either for freedom or especially free culture, speaking from my point of view.

EDIT: Regarding Slackware you could have a look here!

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

82 (edited by throgh 2020-01-08 10:19:34)

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Let's talk about streaming and first things first: Being honest? I don't use any service at all for streaming movies or series. Why don't using them? Because they are nothing more than purest definition of DRM. Do you get the content outside to view it whenever or whereever you want? And there are even now productions being no longer available outside those services. It is the same way as some entertainment-software got far enough being only distributed digital on one single proprietary platform. Yes, perhaps they can get be free at all but this will be another way declared as illegal in many countries. Do you care about freedom, privacy and security? Think twice about using those services, whatever you call them: Netflix, Disney+ or anything else. What about the energy invested to stream those contents back to your device? And again: Being believable, people should also talk about "Green IT" and finding other ways. And think about preservation of those productions as most thoughts seem just being focussed on "today" and not "tomorrow". What then? Lost and forgotten for series, movies and some documentations?

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

83 (edited by throgh 2020-01-08 21:32:56)

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Thinking about about the toxic waste capitalism is leaving us all onto is very important to recognize possible solutions. And I'm not talking about creating another system as some replacement, having therefore the ultimate solution at once. We need to start reflecting the failures instead playing some kind of bad game and being believable is about that. A solution is built on top of being honest to each other and stop hunting for buzzwords, for greed or power. In fact a personal statement: Power is up to no one for the better treating all people under equal rights. Capitalism or the so-called "regulation of free markets" is nothing more than some buzzwords hanging around. In the end the "market" is following the ruleset of the one with the biggest budget, not with the reasonable idea behind. Inclusion and diversity are not just simple "words" and creating vendor lock-in just as systemd, Java, Mono, Rust, PulseAudio and many more are doing is not an illusion. Where is the freedom of choice? Why not to choose some module and instead replace it by another one fitting more into the personal usecase? Not many seem listening these days and the hills of toxic waste are growing, full with cheap marketing speech.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

84 (edited by throgh 2020-01-11 11:16:54)

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Buzzword "social media" (or "networks") is nothing more than a big lie itself. Or do you have possibilities to really get in touch with more than 5 persons called as "followers" or "friends" at a time? There is no difference between open and proprietary, decentralized and centralized systems. You could call them as they are really anti-social as opposite. Information are so fast overcome by the next big "problem in the news" that there is no further time getting deeper into context. And yes: There are situations you better talk about, for example when people and participants declare racism, sexism, ableism and generalized hatred as "freedom of speech". Protecting democratic values is one thing, protecting marginalized beings another and also very important. But instead our global society don't even recognize the flaws and failures these days.

Standing outside is another problem as your own existance is "ignored" or people just talk "about" you. And we should be honest: Getting information is important but better to stay in touch with each other throughout forums like these here. As noted always again: I hope I just scribble down some dystopian vision and not the reality itself as I want being wrong with my wording and writing here. But when I read about people I had contact in the past throughout Diaspora for example writing today the same black and white pictures they wanted to destroy back in those days, tried to give others a vision about emancipation and autonomy, I have clear doubts. So today they write about "enemies", but what is this wording? An enemy is nothing more than absolute ultimate form to be "destroyed". This is pure agitation against emancipation and people are even more into harsh words in those anti-social networks and systems. After words the deeds? sad

So I'll take this moment and underline again: Companies like Microsoft, Apple, Google and many others are not evil by intention. And there is no easy answer for the situation. But why not just ignoring them? Giving them any further platform won't help from my point of view, as it is the same making them to the some kind of "evil". There is many "evil" when we take this phrasing. But to overcome it is not done by some revolution, better to analyze the situation in concrete and this cannot be done from a single person or group. We need decentralized communication, we need time for doing all of this. But our time is running out the same time we stay in our nice little illusion capitalism is giving us. And when we are not "worthy" enough? Thrown out, ignored and marginalized. Who decides being "worthy"? Well, that's a question. And why should even an individual being on earth reduced to be "worthy" or "not worthy"? Even a better question and this rabbit hole is very deep and dark.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

85

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Guess what: Some time ago the FSF announced that the MMORPG (short term for Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game) The Saga of Ryzom went "open" being therefore a big step forward. You can read about that here. What is left about that more than fourteen years later? Exactly nothing. Yes, you can play with a Linux-client. But could you establish your own server? Well, there were some tryouts but there is exactly no further tutorial to be found and there are no further servers available for now.

So that's a very good example on how the "free, libre software" failed. No, not the idealistic picture but just big words and cheap phrases. Nothing more, nothing less. And it gets from month to month, from year to year even more complicated. Not just because of all the ongoing vendor lock-ins, not just because of hollow phrasing and marketing, just about being believable and staying onto the principles.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

86 (edited by throgh 2020-01-15 23:17:29)

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Tired of all the same as time goes by: For what? Enough so-called fighters and activists for "freedom and privacy" just mention the so-called "freedom of speech" again and again. But they give no further clue on where this freedom ends. In fact it seems just endless for themselves and as mentioned here in the thread already: Freedom of speech has got a clear defined end. Exactly when the freedom of others should be restricted, their dignity and essential rights taken away throughout this "freedom" - which is in fact the opposite. You know how to call this? It is the Third Position.

In fact we need something like the FSF, but more being clear without failures or unclear standing for principles. We just don't need big names within as some "leadership", more of questioning and discussion. But what am I writing down? It seems this burried under so much searching for "convenience". And first principle: It's just not only about YOUR freedom, it's just about the freedom for everyone and equal rights. You don't want to hear or read criticism? You want people being in drawers? Think again and please just leave the sphere of free, libre software collecting thoughts and try to reflect first. Afterwards try again! Standing against hate, standing against authority and against prejudices - not meaning tolerance for intolerance, you know?

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

87

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Arrogance and pure ignorance are definitely major problems these days. So who is exactly talking about the focus on "internet" in general? And more about: Just why? Why not decentralize the knowledge itself, making it open? And why should we think about cloning services and handles like the interface of so-called "webapplications"? Yes, there are people without knowing about the computer in general and just using their mobile devices including telephone-capabilities. Getting those people into "free, libre soft- and hardware" is a big task, getting them into "free, colorful culture" even bigger. This cannot be done by just getting the people where they are. The same as everything: It is a complete and complicate change with many steps to be taken and this is an individual decision. First things first: The people need to be open for those ideas. Just getting news and updates onto them in closed and walled services is a really bad and ignorant idea.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

88

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

But anyways i told them what i have... And some people accused me of
having something to hide on my laptop... Like gay porn or being a
pedophile which is very insulting... I understand the right to privacy
slowly disappears these days. But it seems like for people who usually
use windows 10 machines, somebody like myself who is trying to stay
secure is seriously a dodgy person... Or maybe they're jelaous??

I find it fascinating that someone could condemn an individual for
using a secure computer. I (probably) do not have anything to hide in
my residence, but I still prefer to keep the curtains drawn and doors
locked. I see no reason for a computer to be any different.

89 (edited by throgh 2020-01-22 18:26:48)

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Yes and I'd like to add also: Everybody has "something" to hide even when living in some kind of safety for the moment - that is at some point very vague as the political situation can always be changed. If some party comes into influence tending to abolish democratic basics, it is over with sentences like I have nothing to hide!. It is essential having therefore a system respecting the right for being free from following "for the greater good".

One further example why? We have it already: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= … ebook-OOMD

Is "Facebook" therefore absolute "evil"? As always: Of course not. But their intention is therefore not correct or even in some ways helpful. And their work, their services also not. It is not intentionally "evil", it is more about being just ignorant and arrogant. That's the major issue and problem. Another one, because systemd is adopted by many distributions and even the FSF doesn't really care about that. It is just easy to get into major parts of distributions when there is just this type of bloatware used and it is still growing.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

90

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Hey i have read something about facebook alghoritms being implemented into arch linux distribution, basically some compression .zstd
Even parabola had to adopt this
Here is info
https://www.parabola.nu/news/from-arch- … mpression/

I read that this new .zstd is made by facebook that it is made for purpose of testing their alghorytms on every arch linux user... Isn't that crap ;o
I wonder if you have more information about this??

91 (edited by throgh 2020-01-29 22:25:13)

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

cynicfm wrote:

Hey i have read something about facebook alghoritms being implemented into arch linux distribution, basically some compression .zstd
Even parabola had to adopt this
Here is info
https://www.parabola.nu/news/from-arch- … mpression/

I read that this new .zstd is made by facebook that it is made for purpose of testing their alghorytms on every arch linux user... Isn't that crap ;o
I wonder if you have more information about this??

Thanks for the message: Reading through the related article on Wikipedia offers more technical insights and also mentions the relation between Facebook as the project itself is hosted on a repository from this company. But that's one major issue as this algorithm was and is developed under some really clear circumstances as much data should be compressed on the infrastructure of Facebook. Seems nice from them to share this? No it isn't as this is part of making dependencies and the false liberalism of "Open-Source" into "free, libre software".

Well okay: It is using a dual-licensing model: BSD License + GPLv2. But in fact we will find more of those moves in many projects these days. For example: Thunderbird. Looking here: https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/01/th … -new-home/

Sharing a quote:

[...] The move will allow the project to collect revenue through partnerships and non-charitable donations, which in turn can be used to cover the costs of new products and services. [...]

Exactly that: non-charitable donations ... meaning therefore not "donations" for the project to develop for everybody the same but more only of "some" interests of individuals and groups. Yeah, of course: It is always about interests. But why integrating so much things being so clearly away from ideals and making companies like Facebook even more "relevant"? Just because of the size of packages? And what "interests"? Making money from data collected throughout usage of Thunderbird? There are just more lies ahead! More about "being unbelievable".

Just as always the adaption is done from within the "open-source"-community and is a flavor for being made as some kind of "free, libre software". But when we look at the whole landscape it is questionable what is reached today. Being strict onto "free, libre projects" could be one first step as companies will never bring up more than their own interests. Pragmatic, toxic waste is left!

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

92

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Being "believable" means also staying "true" to ideals. So of course it is one thing running proprietary software like older games under GNU/Linux, trying to make those kind of software running in some kind of sandbox: DOSBox, ScummVM, Wine and free, libre emulators for roms and cartridges. But does this also include running proprietary native software in a whole? Does this also include coming up with vendor lockins throughout bloated packages like systemd? And what about running Linux (without GNU) on mobile devices with phone-capabilities? Yes, the PinePhone has some variety upcoming with "Ubuntu Touch" for example and especially this one has enough applications to proprietary services like Facebook and many more included to the "repository" named as application-storage .

So where to draw the line? Where is the difference? Exactly there: Running completely in a sandbox without the need connectivity. Everyone has the own responsibility to draw a line for own needs. But when it comes up to connect throughout the global network, the line is clearly to be defined and this pragmatism will get us all into serious trouble.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

93 (edited by throgh 2020-04-01 20:30:17)

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

So, here we are again, folks. And we are talking again - as always - about being believable in regards to free, libre software. So is NPM to be trusted after the project was bought by Github, therefore originated towards Microsoft? Don't get me wrong: It is not only about that Microsoft has literally years after years showing up that they DON'T LIKE free, libre software and their "new strategy" is just more of the same. It is just about the money in general: So Github bought NPM, therefore also the complete JavaScript-ecosystem itself and Microsoft will show again that they can not be trusted. Perhaps the project itself will stay "free" for some time, but will take the same way Mono did once. As company it is all about the money within Microsoft even if there are people really being into "open-source" and "free, libre software". Such a big machinery can't be changed from the inside, it'll always stop you or your planning when it comes up on money and that's the motor the capitalism is driving through. Do we get this? Or are we just that corrupted? That's the major point: Being believable includes also being sticked onto clear principles and when somebody is coming with the big money the answer stays just NO, it has to be that way because otherwise nothing will be changed for good. And the same with all those projects being hosted on Github: Leave that place, the outcome won't be better. There are others like notabug.org or libregit.org!

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

94

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

First of all I've thought this was a joke on April 1st this year, a really bad one. But now afterwards within the retrospective: No, it seems like MariaDB is going also to be distributed as "Software as a Service" or better to be called "Database as a Service". Reading therefore also the official announcement: https://mariadb.com/resources/blog/soar … th-skysql/

So what has this to do with being believable? Near everything, even better at least: All points. Remember what was once written about "Software as a Service" with Who does that server really serve? from Richard Stallman? Here we have got the same: Even while MariaDB sticks onto the principles of being licensed under the GPL-2, do they REALLY respect the principles? Or is it again more of the same? Making money out of it while more and more freedom gotten into the backyard or is even abolished completely. From my perspective MariaDB is the same like MySQL and should be removed from all repositories. With PostgreSQL there is a good alternative being even more into clear principles!

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

95

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

What is it about freedom, especially when talking about mobile devices and their operating-system? Is Android - meaning the "Android Open Source Project" - really free? Is the inclusion of the so-called "Google Applications" also freedom of choice? No, it is not and I think people should stop talking about like Google is a "helpful nice guy". Yes, as already written here within the thread: There has to be no further evil intention in the first place. But having "no intentional evil deed" does not mean, that an individual won't do anything "evil" furthermore. So, yes: Free to choose, free to use, but there is it: Free to look and having the full control? Here lies the reasoning: No further freedom to be found here. We are not free to control, but this is an elementary basis of all. The original "Android" is not free as in freedom and so Google is not free, their services are given free in the first place, but with high price afterwards: The usage of all collected data without knowledge of the user what is done with it.

Yeah, that's also part of the capitalism, as it destroys everything on its way. But freedom includes everything and instead talking about this false picture and imagery there should be more support for projects like Replicant. Including the "Google Applications" or some emulated interfaces for them is not the way to go and won't be it, forever. wink

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

96

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

throgh wrote:

What is it about freedom, especially when talking about mobile devices and their operating-system? Is Android - meaning the "Android Open Source Project" - really free? Is the inclusion of the so-called "Google Applications" also freedom of choice? No, it is not and I think people should stop talking about like Google is a "helpful nice guy". Yes, as already written here within the thread: There has to be no further evil intention in the first place. But having "no intentional evil deed" does not mean, that an individual won't do anything "evil" furthermore. So, yes: Free to choose, free to use, but there is it: Free to look and having the full control? Here lies the reasoning: No further freedom to be found here. We are not free to control, but this is an elementary basis of all. The original "Android" is not free as in freedom and so Google is not free, their services are given free in the first place, but with high price afterwards: The usage of all collected data without knowledge of the user what is done with it.

Yeah, that's also part of the capitalism, as it destroys everything on its way. But freedom includes everything and instead talking about this false picture and imagery there should be more support for projects like Replicant. Including the "Google Applications" or some emulated interfaces for them is not the way to go and won't be it, forever. wink

Capitalism is just bad by itself, without rules preventing data collection, bad things will happen.

Socialism and captialism need regulation and each other to have a balanced system. However, finding balance is mega hard especially given, the rich like to control things... hmm

PS, android is definitely free as in beer, but a good rule of thumb is, if something is free from a corporation or big business, you are the product.  hmm

Hyperbola:

The Stable Secure Libre Arch!

97

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

throgh wrote:

Well, thanks for the feedback but I think otherwise about. As written most within the postings: It is my personal conclusion and I have not the ultimate ratio or better answer. Would be not interesting otherwise! wink And of couse: Better getting the proof of being "wrong" with the personal conclusions. But my experience told me otherwise around. Yes, people on the IRC tell you many things but even though the possibility of systemd integrated within the portages has some conclusions into otherwise they could have also started to be into INIT-freedom instead, so the question is just answered for this moment and that has nothing to say about the future from my point of view. While I dont know if the plans of Hyperbola getting more concrete regarding s6 and shepherd for example, better to have clear principles. OpenRC is coming up from the developers of Gentoo and that's good though. But the point is: How long until there is no further interest on OpenRC because it is too much time investing for further development and upholding more about systemd? Remember: This service-framework got a big sponsor behind and therefore big interests. Or has anyone seen the team behind systemd asking for support and donations? I didn't but instead there is seen this: Take it, it is free! Such a big monolithic bloatware systemd has become and it won't stop. wink Gentoo has therefore also enough proprietary portages for a possible installation and for being not believable to "defend" and stand either for freedom or especially free culture, speaking from my point of view.

EDIT: Regarding Slackware you could have a look here!

But at least they aren't lying about being freedom restricting, like Trisquel, Debian, Fedora, etc...

Redhat software is freedom restricting despite its free software license. Such irony is thick enough to be used as gravy.

Hyperbola:

The Stable Secure Libre Arch!

98 (edited by throgh 2020-04-06 06:45:45)

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

zapper wrote:

Capitalism is just bad by itself, without rules preventing data collection, bad things will happen.

Socialism and captialism need regulation and each other to have a balanced system. However, finding balance is mega hard especially given, the rich like to control things... hmm

PS, android is definitely free as in beer, but a good rule of thumb is, if something is free from a corporation or big business, you are the product.  hmm

Thanks, we need rules and regulation. The problem itself is: We also need more discussion and actions to be taken at all. When it comes just to economy and capitalism our complete system has failures, worldwide. But I would like to be just more critical when talking about Android being "free as in free beer". The problem is the hard inclusion of the Google interfaces and many other applications using those proprietary frameworks coming up from Facebook for example.

That's the difference I want to make: Creating a system is one thing, but Android depends on many non-free interfaces coming up and we are not quite talking about those libraries or firmware-blobs being included for a "complete functional device". So after all: Companies are not charitable or tolerant. They’re money-making machines with budget set aside for PR and Google wants us to believe that Android functions like "free as in freedom" - in fact this is not the case. Devices are locked in by default and speaking about mobile devices in general: The possibilities to change parts or change the system are more or less not that big, a desaster for producing garbage in general.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

99 (edited by throgh 2020-04-06 17:48:04)

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

zapper wrote:

But at least they aren't lying about being freedom restricting, like Trisquel, Debian, Fedora, etc...

Redhat software is freedom restricting despite its free software license. Such irony is thick enough to be used as gravy.

Okay, that's correct. smile But the problem itself is also: Why including non-free applications and interfaces? There are enough ports for example having Skype or Microsoft Teams. Therefore Gentoo is perhaps better, but in the end also the development is questionable when just having a look on OpenRC itself - which in fact is just distributed throughtout Github. The field of themes is so big. Sorry for having some kind of whatboutism here in the argumentation, but I have no further understatement for some people in the sphere of some distributions and projects. When talking about "freedom" it is also about talking of "freedom of choice". And OpenRC is therefore questionable in the end when being just developed on a complete proprietary platform instead on Savannah, LibreGit or Notabug for example. Another reasoning against systemd itself!

Doesn't mean that we should stop using OpenRC in the first place - systemd therefore is another thing as you already written - but we should question way more elements. Even projects like ScummVM use this proprietary hosting-platform, besides others like Discord. This is dangerous from my point of view and not a good development at all. Just the option to switch to sndio here with Hyperbola is one good example, that the generic way is correct. There should be more: Even using other INIT-systems like GNU shepherd, runit or s6 instead OpenRC: Respecting the real freedom means also respecting sideways and distributed repositories, not the big ones like Github or Gitlab itself. Deleting Github is the way to go and leaving all that crap back to Microsoft!

The elementary question: Why should "we" trust a company pretending to "love open-source" but with a complete proprietary software-stack in the backyard? And why should "we" trust projects not being able to migrate otherwise, not searching for community-driven websites like even LibreGit or NotABug? Or even create own repositories? For example: ScummVM has its very own infrastructure, but is using Github and Discord? Ah, okay? And of what reasoning? Not really helpful at all as this is all a normalization of those services and restricting software-freedom on the long run. We are talking about freedom and those things exclude everyone being not willing to support proprietary software being more and more on the rise.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!

100

Re: Sharing information: About being believable!

Okay, which website could have malfunctioning when locking out jsDelivr? Could become quite a reasonable test for a decnatrlized web itself. But wait: free, fast, and reliable. Where should those attributes to be found? Think there is nothing more than marketing when we have a look onto here. Removing npm and nodeJS as those are not free.

Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!

Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!