I think we need to swtich to an otter browser base, that looks to be the next most usable, parabola gnu/linux-libre has a version of otter browser, without webengine btw.

That being said, they do have web extensions addons as an option, but interestingly enough, they do not use rust at all in their code.
I think we should adopt otter browser, and allow webextensions but if needed have that option disabled by default.

Unless you can add a built in script blocker to otter browser.

Per site one, I mean...

But yeah, I know its not ideal, but I think that's the only option of palemoon/basilisk-browser dies.

As for a name if you want to make a special fork of it, idk...

Frostbeaver?

I really dont know...

That being said, if you choose to do all of this, I would recommend disabling chromium extensions completely even if you don't disable firefox extensions as an option.

Anywho long story short, we may need to abandon iceweasel-uxp for the future... only thing is, I don't know what to do about an email client.

This one is controversial regarding issues. Why not find other alternative web browsers with further details somewhere on few links we shared?

• https://digdeeper.neocities.org/ghost/browsers.html

• https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/index.html

• https://tilde.club/~acz/shadow_wiki/browsers.xhtml

Hello,
I am lost. Unfortunately, while I follow Hyperbola and I made some financial contribution, my day-by-day does not allow me to follow all the details of the developments. However, it looks like points around this discussion are important.
From the text above, I understand that something bad happened, that it is related to the licenses of the browser and that internet is getting misfunctional. These are conclusions, but I miss the facts, probably all of them in the links. Am I correct if I say: somebody found a violation of a license in part of the UXP code, and the UXP maintainer decided to make the whole repository non accessible. And since UXP is the base of mail/browser of Hyperbola, this is a very bad thing...
If that was correct, should we not expect that the UXP maintainer will clean/remove the code of interest to make it available again?

Thanks

But searching also helps and so here is the concurrent last state of the Unified XUL Platform as backup from 2020 where it got deleted: https://udn.realityripple.com/

Perhaps that helps to build also more addons as people asked here in the forum and because of the deleted content the question could not be answered positive until today.

Depends on if uxp can be salvaged by Luke or not...

We also need people to grab the most needed addons from their repository and work them to our will.

We cannot use Firefox because it is using Rust and is coming therefore with a bunch of license-problems ahead also with more adjustments needed. UXP was and is used intentional before Palemoon or better the development-team behind now went down a questionable road with the framework itself. The "tor-browser" is using Firefox. Rust is NOT free and libre per definition and therefore Firefox also as every package based onto the programming-language.

More or less it is a comparable issue Palemoon has now making UXP not directly accessible: To do modifications and patches you need both, the source-code and the license to do them. Whenever one part is missing the project and software turns the other side of the road. The drama results within the MPL-license itself and the will of individuals making the worst out of it as you can read within the thread. That means: Contributor terminates the grant of using the contributed part of source and the whole construct is going right towards a big problem. The MPL is nevertheless compliant to be a free license, but it is also being used against others now. Mozilla has done that in the past, is doing it right now already and the developers of Palemoon doing the same now here. To underline: They draw back the project UXP itself. So the question is also: Do WE have the right now to release Iceweasel-UXP, Iceape-UXP and Icedove-UXP in the future? Well, time will tell therefore. But there are for real no further alternatives ahead now as the UXP-applications themselves showed how broken so-called internet-standards are. And please don't await here that we rebuilt all from scratch: Hyperbola is not a big distribution, where hundreds of people help. For sure looking promising, but we have no time to get deep into every application when we want to be ready for 0.4. Therefore my callout also for everyone being interested to help: No BSD-kernel is falling from the sky right now, no fixed webbrowser will occur from the air and so on.

All packages are for real free and libre, so also being able to be modified at any time. So if there are possibilities for otter-browser feel free to add and test them later on when the package is ready: Hyperbola is from the ground-up community-based. If you have time, review claws-mail or perhaps spamassassin and recognize us here in the forum. We are doing our best at a given time.

That's for sure okay to have as many proposals as possible. We need to sort them and perhaps there will be some more possibility to keep UXP for the future in some way. But as bemc brought also up: Time will tell us all. It is a really big problem what was done now onto the site of Palemoon and I don't want to bring up now fingerpointing how some people are more or less onto "free and libre" from the projects. Also here: That will be shown in the near future when dust settled down a little bit more.

But we are working to be strict onto free, libre and privacy.

Indeed, I agree completely on this, the other distros just are too complacent and don't go nearly far enough for my taste.

They are in my opinion the status quo of free operating systems, which is meh...

Aka, it leaves room for people to use freedom restricting software via free licenses which sounds insane,  but redhat is a sneaky little viper.

Well, I have not so a good perspective about epiphany as I've tried it once to integrate for build some months ago. Perhaps I've chosen not the best way to do so, but that browser is for sure nothing in its concurrent state I'd trust anything further. Different points but also major issues especially with libsecret throughout some corners to come and that was not possible to go around. Just to look onto the TODO-list: https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/~team/ … ncluded.md

And to rework some package so much includes always a growing risk comparable to do an own fork completely and being left onto that. So before we cheer up: Luke will take his time and is onto more research as always. But as Gnome has its very own vision I stay critical, especially with the ones coming through more dependencies like libportal, one "little present" from the flatpak-region. Just to browse websites does not mean I want an own "system within a system to run another system". A statement for reduced complexity instead of even more in just one application and Gnome is for the absolute definition of that. The point: I don't see any usage of growing so-called "web-applications" as this word and phrase is a complete thing for the trash within. When a website is developed like a big application you should better execute on your system the definition of absolute complexity is reached up. That mostly defined "modern websites" demand that and use this approach is the point for me to cut them off completely. And yes: This means to have consequences for sure. But better that as in the end a strict and clear line for principles can't stand a chance - general speaking.

If Github wants to lock me out from their "interface" on the website? Okay, so be it. If Gitlab is doing that the same? Okay. If alternatives follow that line? Their problem, not mine. We should ask ourselves where this is going as free software includes more not only source-code being free to learn and modify. Gnome and KDE have decided for complexity and growing. They have also decided not to draw any line for clear positions. Others follow and when this goes on there will be a time the source-code could be downloaded but is behind a wall of other systems you MUST HAVE and USE before you can access anything or support, even ask some simple questions - not possible for today even for Github or the Gitlab-instance for the Gnome-project.

For sure not meant to criticize you, zapper. But I stay critical and see this whole development in this sphere with growing concerns as I will forever deny to modify my chosen software and behaviour just to fit into some toolset. I want to respect others, not to exclude them when they have also respect. But the modern "web" excludes as baseline even: No JavaScript? You are out. Critical towards external sources and CDN-sharing? You are out. You want to view something? Sorry, you need that kind of "application", used on this kind of system and only throughout our ways. Hey, we talk about a description-language for text-sites once and I'd be even okay with some multimedia-content but with low entrypoints. Having a full load of blown portals instead and they don't want me there when I don't follow their newest whatever, use their newest blinking framework and application or the corresponding system, but well the computer / device is then too old.

So besides the point of the UXP-problem itself and their actions around: Most of the "modern internet" is beyond repair and just for the trashcan as it enforces fully functional devices being thrown away, use vendor-lockins and also brings individuals for real bad behaviour towards each other.
So it is not only dbus being the one problem: There will be for sure one decision to come, following the point of those "modern internet" or give it up at one point. Otherwise I see coming discussions: Why not Rust? Why not NodeJS? Why not Java? But why otherwise support for some browser in the end? That's not the point anyone should want and is not the responsibility of Luke within research. It is the question we are all into at one point as the demand of the community has relations back towards the system and the people. Otherwise it would have been no problem to talk about facts like Linux is going down the wrong way, frameworks are bloated and more about that. But we all can see: It is a problem and people are literally attacked very harsh. So better I write down the concurrent points I see right here, maybe I'm wrong? Would be good. But for now more and more "modern web" exactly is following this course and line I have described before. It is not "evil", it is just ignorance, but results in the end in more problems.

If epiphany is one possible alternative besides giving up support for "modern browsing": I'd immediately choose giving up the support and stay with dillo, links2 and own-compiled UXP-forks for the rest of time until even that is no longer possible especially for the "web". It is the simple reasoning: Nobody except the project-members of Gnome and for sure epiphany itself can guarantee they stay true towards freedom, security and privacy. Sorry, but especially this is for me not enough as Gnome has proven not being oriented towards that in the past and present. The other example is midori: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midori_(web_browser)

This ends then at my initial wording: A system within a system for a system. Just for having something drawn I have to use even more frameworks, middleware and libraries. Kind of a joke, do you "modern internet"? How long until to choose another alternative as project-owners decide to follow others within the line for pragmatic choices or do something comparable like UXP or Mozilla now? Just my personal view onto that as I don't think this is a good way in general speaking for free soft- and hardware. Making compromises is one thing, but this gets even more complicated in this area and it is exhausting for all to search forever again.

You could possibly look into netsurf, @throgh. Very minimal, written all in C, independently developed browser engine, GPL2 licensed, doesn't try to meet all the modern web standards but still renders most un-bloated pages well. And has built-in ad blocking and seems relatively private and secure, since javascript largely does not work in it.

I've been talking to @zapper about netsurf the past few days as a possibility for Hyperbola. I'm a Hyperbola newbie, just trying it for the first time this week. @zapper's been trying to get me to try Hyperbola for quite a long while now, well over a year I think. I'm really enjoying your distro a great deal. I did not know it was so light and fast, it's very impressive. I thought Void was possibly the lightweight champ, but Hyperbola undercuts Void's memory usage by probably 20% or more.

Just wait until runit actually becomes completely functional, then it will really be fast and low memory.

Also just so that I can respond to Throgh as well,  I still think, if dbus can be disabled in Epiphany, it should be included. Also, not all videos are played on invidious or youtube.

But yeah, if that can't be done, then it is what it is.

I have two things of good news I just learned,

1:  https://github.com/RealityRipple/UXP

2:  otter browser can play videos, you just need gst-libav

Apparently, I thought it didnt matter... also, last time I checked, I couldn't download it a while back...

My point being, it no longer matters about epiphany and earlier, I tried midori which... is a crapfest  due to how easily ads enter it...

Now comes a bit of bad news, I think?

I don't really know why, but otter browser won't go on Hyperbola for me, I am not sure if this behavior happens for other people, but yeah,  its a pain in the ass for me anyways.  Something about expired certificates... Weird stuff like that.

But for some reason, youtube doesn't have this problem... which is very odd indeed.