It seems we need to keep this thread open as chance and opportunity to react on accusations from outside. So this time again from another forum. As always I do not mention anything else except the written postings as quotes within here. It is this time also very personal as I was attacked also direct. But more to come later in this posting and reaction. First things first one happening and one time to say: That thread I react on is done by the former community-member "jim" here at Hyperbola. I have banned and excluded him out of the reasoning that he never really wanted to read what was written, he attacked our community several times without any need to do and also did unfair criticism towards other members. So to describe the wideout grounds on this is happening as the thread starts with "Is Hyperbola usable?" as subject.
So than personal as I have never gotten any possibility to register and attend in this discussion elsewhere: jim, you have gotten support. Multiple times.I name now examples:
https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?id=1058
https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?id=1043
https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?id=967
I have also provided several times tutorials on how to build packages and even build a package especially on your wish, providing the source-material here: https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic … 8042#p8042
Stating the following in quote:
[NAME] ,i think this is impossible, since the forum administrator would ban [NAME] for his opinion if he wrote the same thing there))
There is only the opinion of one person (throgh) which cannot be disputed and even Richard Stallman has no right to do so
https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?id=521
No support and if the free, libre software is only possible with this person
This is beyond anything as you misuse an old thread (which was therefore also deleted), take this in a complete different context and try to underline your "ad hominem"-argumentation. Your only point is and was to attack me in person, while all your accusations are not even near the reality. You were told several times that you can get help, when you also follow the written instructions. Demanding to build packages on command? Not working. And only to hide behind the phrase "I'm only a user" is also not working: You had always the chance to read the wiki and understand what kind of system Hyperbola is and that we follow the maxime do it yourself. You were also told several times that if you have no interest doing so, compile and package on your own, you should perhaps search for a different system and project fitting your needs. There are for sure more systems and nobody is enforced to use Hyperbola. But when wanted, you should also make yourself firm with the used philosophy of Hyperbola. We are not going to change the direction of our system-project just because people demand being near to GNU/Linux. I underline again one last time here: Hyperbola is NOT GNU/Linux alone and is onwards to a free, libre BSD-descendant operating-system. Also: Hyperbola is NOT a clone, NOT a snapshot, NOT another copy of whatever. Even now we build ALL our packages from scratch. We just use pacman (for 0.4.5 it will be hyperman) and patchsets from Debian. It is not that complicated except people do not want to read and understand what we write.
And this brings me to the second part of this thread elsewhere beyond vengeance and revenge (as that is the spirit in what jim handels, hiding this behind the wordin "dissatisfaction"): We have again the criticism that we redefine "free and libre" and use it wrong. To quote:
(...)
The Hyperbola project is of course entitled to its own restricted selection of programs. Nevertheless, in my humble opinion, claiming the rejected programs raise freedom issues when they do not (by the standards of the FSF), makes much confusion, which is detrimental to the free software movement.
Those are harsh accusations as we take surely the definitions serious. But we go also beyond and state that for us as system-project some packages and software raise freedom-issues. This includes only us, no other system and we have no real issue if others see this different.
It is important to know that Hyperbola's developers tend to claim that any program they dislike is not free.
We do not "dislike" those programs, we just see issues for our definition. Therefore we take our individual right and not distribute the packages. Furthermore we have enhanced the following wiki-articles once again on behalf of the criticism:
https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id … y_software
https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id … e_packages
But it seems this is never enough as also again we are indirect attacked for our criticism towards Rust, PHP and Java:
Also:
Only on https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic … 6&p=17 (the last of 17 pages about "the roadmap after 0.4"), one can read that Subversion and Apache "are NOT free and libre" (the emphasis is throgh's), that "Apache-projects and the combined trademark-guidelines endanger free, libre principles", that "FSF is failing again its position as role-model given to show that there is not just only the license but also a social responsibility" because it endorses the WebM and VP8 formats, that any AV1 codec, including dav1d in VLC, "is not free and freedom itself", that with "so-called 'free alternatives' (Mastodon, PeerTube, Diaspora, Hubzilla etc.) [y]ou are all implementing illusions", that OpenArena "is not fully free and libre oriented", etc.
As reaction we have also closed and moved the thread quoted. Especially this last quote shows a dishonest act, as the original text is quite different with a complete different context. To quote this:
throgh wrote:A comment on the AV1-situation and the codec itself: The "Alliance for Open Media" is using claims such as "open, royalty-free video coding format" but in fact there are clear patents and trademarks behind this codec. Also when looking at the founding members as listing: Amazon, Cisco, Google, Intel, Microsoft, Mozilla, Netflix
This is NOT a community-driven project. This is an industry consortium. We at Hyperbola deny distributing software driven only by industry-interests. We want community-oriented software and projects. This means by people for people. Not by company to customers. We are not customers, treated just as in being a contract at best or even more worse without having any further right granted. Here is clearly to see that companies and corporations do not allow another relation and also do not see more above their ignorance. Therefore we won't distribute aom or also dav1d. The reasoning for dav1d is exactly the same even when coming from the VLC-project: It is trademarked software and trademarks can risk freedom in advance.
And it is an illusion to think that distributing such software-packages will help anyone. This makes people depending on such codecs and those are also enforced on hard- and software on-going. So the question is really: Are we free to do and modify? Or are we just distributing industry-packages? Hyperbola is not and will not follow this path. We reduce the packages offered and remove out of reasoning. We do not maintain industry-packages offered by ignorance and arrogance in the thought that a generic lie for granted license is enough. Remember: This can always be revoked. The companies have concluded that "streaming" is the "next big thing" and therefore they have done steps into this direction. And now they present so-called "gifted software" as grant for free and libre software. Should we be that ignorant to accept those? The answer is here exactly: NO. There is no need for "streaming" but instead to have a secure system playing local videos.
You want to be free as in freedom? Meaning not driven by callout from others? Well, then there is a decision to make. In the end companies like Amazon, Apple, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Cisco and many others have learned how to drop packages as so-called "open-source" but in fact have their patents and trademarks now protected through a wide group of people working for their projects without demanding anything and getting in return to be treated like a "customer" having a license-contract. That is not free and freedom itself is also bringing responsibility as we have written in another corresponding article.
And:
throgh wrote:You may ask as user: Hey and why did you added all those packages before when you remove them now? Easy to say: We wanted to reach first a status quo for release 0.4 to have the possible stable point. From there we have reduced and optimized further. Also we needed to learn more about the essential issues as we also thought the same as many others before that there are some packages and projects with issues. But the amount of issues we have seen since then was more than "just some projects".
So we need to review on-going which package we absolutely want and need and which ones we can clear remove or even need to blacklist. Remember here that Hyperbola is since version 0.4 build from scratch with all own packages and even an own packaging format in usage. We will have another fresh release with version 0.4.5 coming, where we have reduced another big amount and optimized many known packages further so they run even better with reduced issues and vectors to attack. Yes, this means also that there are many options like "streaming video / audio" is no longer available. But to be honest: A local secure system in the hand of its users is what we want. Not the opposite!
Sorry for the people in favor with the "next big online thing". But we here at Hyperbola do not see the need with more and more online-services to share even the smallest details with an unknown mass of people. That's exactly the point bringing our global society out of balancing. Everybody has a different understand what humor could be and what is a joke and what not. Everybody has an own border what is okay and what not. Bringing really every detail and having all people filling their time with nonsense meme-imagery, with even more attention-search is not the way we reach a better understanding for each other. Hyperbola is not supporting such movement as operating-system and project. We will not provide further integration of web-services. If this is the will of the individual user? Sure thing, do whatever suits you. But we only bring a basic operating-system, surely with all things needed for a local usage. But not more!
From our perspective the whole part of free and non-free JavaScript is NOT working. Yes, non-free JavaScript is same way absolutely not working and okay. But right away trying to overcome non-free JavaScript in non-free platforms sharing non-free data with some alike "free and open implementation" is not working either. That project would afford always being on-pair with the non-free platform and changing at any time possible new API-calls, possible new additions or restrictions to overcome. That cannot be the task for free, libre software. It is quite more honest to accept that this platform is then not possible to use, same as so-called "free alternatives" (Mastodon, PeerTube, Diaspora, Hubzilla etc.): You are all implementing illusions with a big amount of JavaScript. Aside from the technical issues named we have also social implications as no platform has brought people more together, only more marketing-interests and wannabe communication. It is more open to have a specialized forum and smaller communities.
Hyperbola has not only the technical definition, it uses also the social aspect for freedom. And the mentioned issues relies beyond the pure technical aspects. But this all does not really count as Hyperbola is not fitting nevertheless and our system-project in its current phase is also not getting a welcome as it seems. We have tried to get in touch with the people for days now. We wanted to take a stance for sure and defend our position, even knowing that the best situation and outcome would be an "agree to disagree". But this would be enough for us.
As result of this all now this statement as we dislike this unneeded drama-making, we dislike also that no one is getting in touch with us so we get a chance for a talk. Also the FSF ignored this now and no one reacted further. So we close this now on our side with this posting, stating: Dear people elsewhere, you are reacting to a person only searching for revenge, using lies and dishonest claims. A person not willing to learn, just to enforce others on will, to demand and claim, not to give. And beyond that the given criticism was heard from us: We do not have any interest to read accusations elsewhere without given any chance to react or getting in touch. This is the last time as out of this we will no longer give longer explanations why we remove packages or rework them. We will just do as this is free, libre software alike Hyperbola is also. So? If you are not okay with what we do, fork and do it your own. And one last time: We do not do finger-pointing to our forums, seems others have a slight different perspective on that and no problem doing that bringing us here into explanations and distraction from our time and planned roadmap. Thanks for doing so, but this is not the first time for such dishonest accusations and it will be for sure not the last time.
The FSF has its directory even now full with not complete free oriented software. One example? VDrift is using clear copyright-material as the logos from "Coca-Cola" and "Pirelli". We doubt that they are allowed to use those logos and even doing so: There are enough examples with neverball and supertuxkart were even less strict data without clear licensing causes much more problems. But for the FSF this seems to be not really an issue. Okay for them, not okay for us as we use more strict rules. Makes us handle even more correct? No, we do not see us on higher steps and whatever kind of handle. But we just see issues. And using the links as approval that we only "dislike" software is not working. Should we ignore the issues just because the FSF is stating so? No, we don't. Before people now claim we should note the FSF: We have done, please look on the ticket-id #2005329 for VDrift. And we do no longer run behind waiting endless same as we do not run behind other forums. We were the ones being attacked, I was the one being accused and attacked. Fair would have been to discuss with us, instead just to do finger-pointing. And for sure: People may "ignore" trademarks. Point being is: The companies having those trademarks just do not ignore the people wanting to ignore their trademarks. Funny? No, reality. And ignoring the reality may work out for a given timespan, as long as the companies grant the usage of trademarks. What happens when this is not happening any longer? Likewise GNU/Linux had this situation before and when taking that serious and strict again, we never left those fields. We only had an agreement for a price. And when Hyperbola for example is not willing to do so? We should be ashamed we are not following? Oh yes, we could try to behave like copying a damaged concept (social platforms) and implement the same broken concept in free, libre licensed code work out. We could also try to behave like ignoring trademarks and severe copyright-violations is not of any issue or using non-free data and only free, libre licensed code counts. Does this change the issues we name? No. See that's the point: Hyperbola is opposing this and does not accept that. Only we do so does not mean you (whoever meant like anyone) are not allowed to do so. Please do, please ignore. But is just that: We do not want to ignore that issues.
But on the final point: To accuse us doing active harm to the free software movement in this is beyond being okay. A diverse landscape within the free software should be of no issue at all. Demanding from all to run in exact only one pre-defined direction without any kind of retrospective, without any kind of discussion or thoughts about other solutions is what? Yes, it is just running behind without given the right of questioning. And that is not acceptable. So either we are okay with "agree on disagree" and keep a status quo, or we discuss this and come to another comparable conclusion. But to accuse this project and me also personal in such ways is not helping anyone. And jim? Thanks for all the flowers you have made now here and in the other forum. It was and is reasonable to point you to the EXIT-door, because you have showed exactly that you are not willing to understand or in fact take points into your perspective. Last but not least, jim: Even Mr. Stallman may have points where he ignores or have flaws in his perspective. Respect and accept that we all have those, and begin to learn from those. Would be good! Personal I wish you all the best, yes no sarcasm after all: Please find a system suiting your demands, but Hyperbola is obviously not fitting your perspective.
Human being in favor with clear principles and so also for freedom in soft- and hardware!
Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices: For a life of every being full with peace and kindness, including diversity and freedom. Capitalism is destroying our minds, the planet itself and the universe in the end!